launching individual characters?

I have several accounts each with 2 or 3 characters that I might want to play, in several combinations on a few different arrangements of 1 to 4 machines.

When switching configurations I would rather not have to camp the characters that are staying the same. Leave them in the game and swap in their new partners. And if I want to switch to an alt of a current character, I want to go back to character select, not all the way out of the game.

Setting up separate character sets for each configuration in ISBoxer seems a bit daunting, and besides, when I try to launch different character sets with some of the characters already loaded it gets confused about which character is which. It might help if I could find some documentation of basic concepts like "slots" and such...

Anyway. What I am considering is setting up two or three character sets with one slot per account. The first set contains the main characters on each account, subsequent sets change the corresponding slot to a playable alt if there is one, otherwise just repeat the main character.

Then I can use the right-click menu from InnerSpace to launch whichever characters I want, one from each account.

I know this defeats the "one click to launch everything" selling feature of ISBoxer. But it isn't a hands-off process in any case. I cannot click 'launch' and sit back and wait. I have to interact manually to get each character launched, selecting the right account and character on Launchpad (or if I use the patchme version accepting the Eula and entering a password), so selecting the character in the first place does not add significant impact.

I am obviously a complete novice here. So please tell me what I am missing?

[firescue17]

You're not missing anything. That's how it works. If you want to share a Character amongst a Character Set, make sure it's in the same Slot.

Well. It works for the characters loaded on a single machine. But it does not work across multiple machines, at least not yet.

I defined many of my playable characters.

I defined 4 character sets:
MAINS
ALTS1
ALTS2
ALTS3

I added the mains from each account to the first set, then any relevant alts in the subsequent sets. Where there was no alt, I put in the main character again, so all sets have the same number of slots, ordered by account.

I defined a Key Map with a few keys I had been experimenting with. For example, one to send Ctrl+i to all but current when I press Alt+i. (to accept a group invitation)

I saved the data, then exported to all machines.

I loaded 3 characters on one machine, 2 on another, using the right-click menu from Inner Space.

Each of the resultant game windows has an appropriate title with is1, is2, etc with the character name and character set they are in.

I have in-game socials to invite all the people I might want to group. So I hit those to send invitations, then Alt+i to get them to accept.

Those on the same machine will respond by joining the group.

Those on the second machine get the invitations of course, but do not get the Ctrl+i.

The keys work on that second machine. If one of those characters presses Alt-I the other will accept. But there is no broadcast between the machines.

These same keys work fine across the LAN with these machines if I follow the normal process of launching a split group, with an "Also Launch" specification. Besides, the export across the LAN works fine. So it isn't a network or firewall problem. It's just that the sessions on one machine don't know that they are supposed to send commands to the other.

Is there something I can do to make the keys flow across the LAN? What does ISBoxer do when launching a split group, in addition to launching the characters?

Incidentally, it doesn't matter that the characters may potentially be in different character sets. On a single machine, I can camp any of the characters and load an alt in its place. and broadcast keys still work. And I don't have to go all the way out... I can stop at character select and come back on a new character, then tell InnerSpace to load the new character and it says "reloaded" and changes the window title appropriately. Which is exactly what I was hoping for... I can dynamically change the group membership quickly and easily.

I know, I know. I'm going against the grain here, trying to use this program in a way it was not intended to function. But I need to play in different physical locations, and that laptop which is used as a secondary slave becomes the boss machine, so I need to duplicate all the group configurations at least twice with different computer assignments. Or I could just edit the computer assignments each time I move... but I would still need several different character sets and I was hoping to avoid the clutter. Am I out of luck?

[firescue17]

I know, I know. I'm going against the grain here, trying to use this program in a way it was not intended to function.

What you're describing is all standard practice.

Well. It works for the characters loaded on a single machine. But it does not work across multiple machines, at least not yet.

In order to control Characters across multiple computers you will need to create an Action Target Group. ISBoxing EverQuest: Main and Alternate Character Management covers this in detail. The section regarding Group 1, Group 2, etc. was specifically written for use with Multiple Computer Helper.

I know, I know. I'm going against the grain here, trying to use this program in a way it was not intended to function.

What you're describing is all standard practice.

Ok. Color me embarrassed, but it still is not obvious to me.

Well. It works for the characters loaded on a single machine. But it does not work across multiple machines, at least not yet.

In order to control Characters across multiple computers you will need to create an Action Target Group. ISBoxing EverQuest: Main and Alternate Character Management covers this in detail. The section regarding Group 1, Group 2, etc. was specifically written for use with Multiple Computer Helper.

I created an Action Target Group called "everyone" with all the characters in it. I changed the targets for my small set of experimental keys to others in everyone. It still doesn't send the keys from machine to machine.

The problem seems to be that the computers are not "linked" for key-targeting purposes. I am still missing something... hoping that there is some command or configuration that can tell Inner Space that the computers are linked, even though I am not launching linked character sets.

Everything I've read so far assumes that you have a static computer configuration, and I don't. The computer that is my primary control system at home is not available when I am with my wife in the nursing home, and the laptop that is used at home for secondary characters is now the primary control, with her laptop becoming secondary. There are other configurations as well, but that's enough to motivate the attempt to do it this way.

From that guide: "The first thing you will need to do is decide which PC will handle which Characters."

Which is what I am trying to avoid. Where characters reside is not fixed. They are all defined to Inner Space on all machines, and any subset that I load on any machine is able to communicate among themselves.

When I look at the available targets for keys in ISBoxer, it shows me all the slots and characters on all three machines. So presumably I could target a particular character or slot on the other machine and it would work. (haven't actually tried it). But neither the all windows or the all inclusive everyone ATG actually is recognized as spanning the machines.

------
Trying to read through your guide to "ISBoxing Everquest" ... all I can say is "WOW!". I am really impressed with all that can be done, and all the work you have put into it. But I am overwhelmed by all the detail. I was trying/hoping to use this for a little bit of casual play, keeping everything simple. It looks like it would take me months of work and learning to emulate what you have there. I'm getting old, and my head hurts just looking at it.

Do you have a startup section somewhere that talks about how you get all those characters loaded into the game? Do you answer my concern about characters running on different machines at different times? What do you actually launch?

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I just found a MESSY partial solution.

My mostly-used computers are called DAVID, VAIO, and REENIELAP

I made copies of my MAINS character set called MAINS DAVD, MAINS VAIO, MAINS REENIELAP and assigned the appropriate computers to each.

I set MAINS DAVID to also launch MAINS VAIO, and MAIINS VAIO to also launch MAINS REENIELAP.

The messy part: I cannot actually let it launch all of these characters on both machines. So I close the launcher when it pops up.
The launching has accomplished its purpose of linking the machines for key broadcasts.

I then I manually load just the characters I want (using the right-click menu on Inner Space) on each machine.

Preliminary testing suggests it works.

But it would be cleaner if I could just tell it to link the machines, without the fake launch step or needing dummy copies of character sets assigned to particular computers.

[firescue17]

I created an Action Target Group called "everyone" with all the characters in it.

This is good. You're on the right track here.

To be honest, I don't understand what you're explaining or requesting in most of the posts in this thread. I'm going to highlight some possibly redundant points:

even though I am not launching linked character sets.

I then I manually load just the characters I want (using the right-click menu on Inner Space) on each machine.

If you're manually launching Characters, it is entirely possibly they're not going to work. You may see limited functionality using generic Targets such as Slot # or All of ISBoxer. This may sound pedantic, but the reason a Character Set is called a Character Set is because it's a "Set of Characters." It contains all the Characters you want to play at any given time. If you launch "Everyone" and then manually add some Characters, they're not going to get commands because they don't exist in "Everyone." "Everyone" needs to contain *everyone*. If you want to play "Everyone" plus "Someone Else," either you need a new ATG, to add them to the existing ATG, or to create a new Character Set.

Setting up separate character sets for each configuration in ISBoxer seems a bit daunting...

Per the above, you just gotta do it. If you intend to play the Character as part of a group, ISBoxer needs to know the Character exists and is logged in. Manually launching the Character does not accomplish this.

I have to interact manually to get each character launched, selecting the right account and character on Launchpad ... o I close the launcher when it pops up.

Best practice would be to bypass the launcher anyway. Patching is only required once a month or after a hotfix. It's not needed the rest of the time. If you used the Quick Start Wizard the "No Patch" option is created for you automatically. The only thing required is to select the correct game profile as described in Section 3 of the Quick Start Wizard "For a game not requiring a launcher." In conjunction with Virtual Files you don't need to pick a Character from the Launcher or the Character Select screen. They're automatically selected.

Setting up separate character sets for each configuration in ISBoxer seems a bit daunting...

What you could do is create generic Character Sets on each machine, let's call them "2 Box," "3 Box," and "4 Box" with the appropriate number of slots in each Character Set. Then through the creative application of "Also Launch" with Multiple Computer Helper and dragging and dropping Characters into the different Character Set slots (AND exporting after every update) accomplish what I vaguely understand you want.

When you're at the nursing home with your wife, drag the Characters into the Slots of Character Set "4 Box." Export, launch the Character Set from the icon and play away. Let's say you go home and want to play two Characters on two different machines. Drag two Characters into "2 Box" on your main machine. Drag two Characters into "2 Box" on your laptop. Set the main machine to "Also Launch" Character Set "2 Box" on your laptop. Export and launch from the icon. The main machine launches "2 Box on itself and *Also Launches* "2 Box" on your laptop. When you go back to the nursing home the next time you want to play three Characters on the laptop. Drag and drop them, export and play.

To further reiterate using the examples Character 1, Character 2, Character 3, Character 4:
Machine 1: Character 1; Machine 1: Character 2 is a Character Set.
Machine 1: Character 1; Machine 2: Character 2 is a different Character Set
Machine 1: Character 1; Machine 2: Character 2; Machine 3: Character 3 is a different Character Set
Machine 1: Character 1; Machine 1: Character 2; Machine 2: Character 3; Machine 3: Character 4 is a different Character Set

and on and on and on multiplied by the the number of alts, machines, and particular combinations of Characters you want to play as a group.

Thank you for your patience with a newbie. I hope you will stay with me a little longer, if only to understand what I am saying well enough to point out why I am wrong

You say:

"If you're manually launching Characters, it is entirely possibly they're not going to work. You may see limited functionality using generic Targets such as Slot # or All of ISBoxer. This may sound pedantic, but the reason a Character Set is called a Character Set is because it's a "Set of Characters." It contains all the Characters you want to play at any given time. If you launch "Everyone" and then manually add some Characters, they're not going to get commands because they don't exist in "Everyone." "Everyone" needs to contain *everyone*. If you want to play "Everyone" plus "Someone Else," either you need a new ATG, to add them to the existing ATG, or to create a new Character Set."

I am launching characters from the all-inclusive character sets that I have defined, using the right-click menu from innerr space.

ALL of my playable characters are defined in at least one of the 4 character sets, and ALL of them are in the "Everyone" ATG.

My character sets do contain all the characters I might EVER want to play at a given time.

There is no "Someone Else". "Everyone" means everyone. If I create a new character, I will add it.

This includes many characters that cannot actually be played together since they are on the same account. Each slot in these character sets corresponds to one account. So slot 1 in MAINS contains a character from account1, slot 1 in ALTS1 has another character from that same account, and so on. If there are no more alts, I fill in with the main character so that every set has the same number of slots, which is the number of accounts I have access to.

This way, whenever any character is launched, it always goes in the slot for its account regardless of the machine it is running on, and regardless of which other characters may be running on the same machine. If I camp to an alternate character on a given account, the alt takes over the same slot. If I camp all the way out and load the alt on a different machine, the slot for its account will always be available.

If you intend to play the Character as part of a group, ISBoxer needs to know the Character exists and is logged in. Manually launching the Character does not accomplish this.

I am launching the character from an ISBoxer character set, so it knows about it. I am just selecting the characters manually inside the ISBoxer environment, not going outside and using my normal game startup shortcut.

I hope that is clear enough that you understand what I am attempting?

It all works fine. I can load and swap characters at will, and ISBoxer properly sends any defined keystrokes among them.

The only problem I had was getting the two machines to talk to each other across the LAN. I temporarily solved that by copying the MAIN character sets, and setting one up for each main machine to "also launch" a set on the secondary machines. This is a dummy launch... I don't actually let any of the game sessions start. Instead I start the ones I want.

The "also launch" does something to tell Inner Space on each of the machines to communicate with the other machines. That is the part that I was hoping to find a command to accomplish. "Also launch" also tries to load the characters in the launched set, but that is the part I do not want happening, so I just close out the launcher to kill it. It works, but seems messy.

Hmm. Wonder if I can launch dummy character sets with no characters in them just to do the communication linking? I'll have to try it.

[firescue17]

I am launching characters from the all-inclusive character sets that I have defined, using the right-click menu from innerr space.

ALL of my playable characters are defined in at least one of the 4 character sets, and ALL of them are in the "Everyone" ATG.

My character sets do contain all the characters I might EVER want to play at a given time.

There is no "Someone Else". "Everyone" means everyone. If I create a new character, I will add it.

Great! It can be a fair amount of overhead initally; however, once it's done, it's done. You don't have to mess with it again ... until you make a new alt

This includes many characters that cannot actually be played together since they are on the same account. Each slot in these character sets corresponds to one account. So slot 1 in MAINS contains a character from account1, slot 1 in ALTS1 has another character from that same account, and so on. If there are no more alts, I fill in with the main character so that every set has the same number of slots, which is the number of accounts I have access to.

This way, whenever any character is launched, it always goes in the slot for its account regardless of the machine it is running on, and regardless of which other characters may be running on the same machine. If I camp to an alternate character on a given account, the alt takes over the same slot. If I camp all the way out and load the alt on a different machine, the slot for its account will always be available.

If you want to share a Character amongst a Character Set, make sure it's in the same Slot.

I wanted to clarify this point; it's not necessary to put a Character in the same Slot or use empty placeholder Slots *PROVIDED* you camp out to the desktop. Obviously I don't know what your account structure looks like or how you mix and match Characters, but this reads like you have unnecessary Slots in your profile. I guess if it works for you stick with it for now until you get more oriented. Then again I could be way off base since I can't see what's happening.

The only problem I had was getting the two machines to talk to each other across the LAN. I temporarily solved that by copying the MAIN character sets, and setting one up for each main machine to "also launch" a set on the secondary machines. This is a dummy launch... I don't actually let any of the game sessions start. Instead I start the ones I want.

The "also launch" does something to tell Inner Space on each of the machines to communicate with the other machines. That is the part that I was hoping to find a command to accomplish. "Also launch" also tries to load the characters in the launched set, but that is the part I do not want happening, so I just close out the launcher to kill it. It works, but seems messy.

Hmm. Wonder if I can launch dummy character sets with no characters in them just to do the communication linking? I'll have to try it.

This is messy and not the way it should work. Possibilities:

A) Something is wrong with your Multiple Computer Helper setup.
B) Something is linked incorrectly among your Character Sets and Also Launch settings. Share your configuration, pick *one* Character Set (for now) which is not working incorrectly, describe the what's wrong with it, and I'll see if I can match up the Character Sets and machines. Once we get that working correctly, we'll look at a second set and figure out what steps are needed.

Hello again. Sorry for the delay. Things got busy for me, and I have had little time to look at this.

I'd like first to explain why I started trying to do it this way.

When I first tried to launch a simple configuration a week or so ago, I ran into a problem: the launchpad was stuck behind any already launched windows, and I did not realize it was there for the second character or beyond. Once I found it, I still could not make it pop to the top. So I would have to minimize the EQ screens to interact with it and get another character started. While fiddling around with it, the isboxer launching process would time out, so I would have to do it again... and with all the delays and with previous launches minimized, I would get confused about which character I was supposed to be loading and pick the wrong one... frustrating.

A few months ago I had a similar problem in windows that had nothing to do with isboxer. I fixed that by setting some foreground lockout timers in the registry to 0. Since the behavior was the same as I had seen before, I went looking for windows solutions and meanwhile crying a little every time I needed to start up a set of characters.

Turns out it was ISBoxer after all. There is an option to keep the windows always on top, and it was turned on, and that was changing my eqclient files to have alwaysontop=1. To make matters worse, I had made some changes while running under ISBoxer that I wanted to keep when running without it, so I copied one of the virtual eqclient files to my base directory, and thus propagated the problem into EQ sessions launched without ISBoxer even running.

I don't remember seeing this setting before. Much less changing it. If it is on by default it should not be. I suppose I could have unthinkingly turned it on at some point, thinking it was the same as the isboxer option to make the game THINK it was on top.

Anyway. Once I found and turned off that option, and did a global change through all the .ini files to set alwaysontop=0, things worked much more smoothly.

But before that, I had become accustomed to launching the characters one at a time, using the "launch a slot" option.

Not as frustrating, since I was focused on selecting one particular character at a time, and I could minimize the others and just do that one character. One thing led to another and I came up with my scheme of providing Inner Space with an all-inclusive set of character sets, so I could just launch whichever ones I wanted and not bother with configuring specific character sets.

Which led to this configuration: http://www.privatepaste.com/4163b055db

The inclusive character sets MAINS, ALTS1, etc are never launched as a set. Individual slots are launched manually, as desired.

To get the computers to talk to each other, I defined the dummy linked sets DAVIDx, VAIOx, and REENIELAPx. Launching one of these starts to launch a single character (doesn't matter which, I just picked the first character) but I don't allow it to happen. I close launchpad to cancel these dummy launches. I tried it first with no characters in them, and it refused to run saying there was nothing to launch. So I put in the one character for each, it runs, and whatever it does during the "also launch" process opens communication among the machines.

Cool. It is now working, and if I get time and energy I can focus on some of those neat functions you describe in your guides.

I don't immediately see that my method of starting up a group breaks what you are doing. ATGs carry the load of defining relevant character groups and classes, and the actual "character sets" don't seem to have a role beyond getting a set of characters running on the various machines. Which I can do by loading whoever I want to play, wherever I want to play them. So for now I think I may stick with this approach. At some time in the future, once I become more comfortable with using the system, I may find a reason to switch to the conventional approach of defining specific character sets for specific configurations.

That reason will probably become apparent if I ever get the energy to simplify my UI or adopt one of the good ones available, so that it is possible to condense my screens enough to be used with one of those nice Window Layouts that I can't use for now. But that is too big a change to my long established game habits to be comfortable at this time.

----

You told me that it was "Best practice" to use the patchme option to bypass the Launchpad. I fail to see the advantage. Launchpad is working much better now than when it was a first-released nightmare. If things are up to date, it takes very little extra time to go through it, and if a patch is needed it gets taken care of automatically, with no chance of problems caused by trying to run with an unpatched game.

For both methods you must be at the keyboard of the machine on which a character is to be loaded.

For Launchpad there are menu selections for account and character, plus clicks to get to the next stage.

For eqgame, there is that annoying Eula you have to click past. Then the virtual files take care of account and character selection for you, but you still have to enter a password, which you did not have to do for Launchpad.

Since I use long passwords, different for each account, I find the Launchpad version smoother.

Am I missing something about why one should prefer eqgame?

----

If I continue with my approach, I still have that messy step of launching dummy characters sets initially with "also launch" specifications to link the computers together for communicating keys. So I'm still looking for a command or configuration or something to tell Inner Space or the Multiple Computer Helper or whatever is doing it, to have the machines link up to talk to each other without having to try to launch a character on each one.

It isn't really that bad, but it seems wrong to have to do it this way.

----

I guess that is all for now. Even with my minimal setup, I can tell my boxed characters to accept the group invites I sent them with an ingame social, to follow me or another member of the group, to assist and do whatever they do on a new incoming mob, and to nuke the current mob. I can also tell my two casters to double-invis the group. Trivial, but enough to be useful.

This is all heavily dependent on in-game socials and the group assist functions, which I am looking forward to replacing with something more like your virtualized setup.

Thanks again for your responses.

[firescue17]

Regarding the patcher, if you're happy with the method and it works for you, by all means stick with it. All the passwords for my accounts are the same. When launching a Character Set, I turn on the Repeater and cilck to accept the EULA, type in the password and hit Enter. At Character Select since the Characters are already selected by the .inis I hit the Enter button again (or mouse click Enter World) and they're logged in. It takes less than three minutes to get 6 Characters into the world.

ATGs carry the load of defining relevant character groups and classes, and the actual "character sets" don't seem to have a role beyond getting a set of characters running on the various machines.

Correct. Up until recently I had to use Multiple Computer Helper. I got in the habit of using ATGs since there is no "All of All Characters on All Computers" built into ISB. I still use a custom "All of ATG" to accommodate running two groups at once.

If I continue with my approach, I still have that messy step of launching dummy characters sets initially with "also launch" specifications to link the computers together for communicating keys. So I'm still looking for a command or configuration or something to tell Inner Space or the Multiple Computer Helper or whatever is doing it, to have the machines link up to talk to each other without having to try to launch a character on each one.

It isn't really that bad, but it seems wrong to have to do it this way.

The function you're looking for exists in defining the complete and correct Character Sets and Also Launch Character Sets. We seem to be having a disconnect via forum communication regarding this point. It may be beneficial to review these links.

I reviewed your profile linked above. Since you didn't specify a Character Set / Also Launch on which Machines you wanted help with, I can summarize what is happening with the Character Sets you have currently.

MAINS: This Character Set has no computer assigned to it, nor does it have a Character Set assigned to Also Launch. This means MAINS will launch on the "Current Computer." Current Computer is whichever one you happen to be on at the time. If you're on the desktop, it will launch on the desktop. If you're on your laptop, it will launch on the laptop. If you're on your wife's laptop, it will launch on there. This Character Set has no Also Launch links; therefore it won't attempt to launch anything else.

ALTS1: This Character Set has no computer assigned to it, nor does it have an Also Launch link. See above MAINS.
ALTS2: This Character Set has no computer assigned to it, nor does it have an Also Launch link. See above MAINS.
ALTS3: This Character Set has no computer assigned to it, nor does it have an Also Launch link. See above MAINS.

If you're launching MAINS, ALTS1, ALTS2, or ALTS3, you will ONLY get eight Characters to load on a single computer.These Character Sets will NEVER communicate with a Character Set on another computer.

The next Character Sets I'm gathering are what you're referring to as the Dummy Sets? Is this the either / or scenario you're referring to depending upon which computer you play at which location? I dunno. There's some sort of roundabout issue here which I'm unable to decipher.

DAVIDx: This Character Set will ONLY launch on computer David. It has two Also Launch links which will attempt to launch Character Set VAIOx on Computer VAIO and REENIELAPx on Computer REENIELAP. If you're launching DAVIDx, you will NEVER get more than three Characters to load, one on each of the three computers.
VAIOx: This Character Set will ONLY launch on computer VAIOx. It has one Also Launch link which will attempt to launch REENIELAPx on Computer REENIELAP. If you're launching VAIOx, you will NEVER get more than two Characters to load, one on each of two computers.
REENIELAPx: This Character Set will ONLY launch on computer REENIELAP. It has no Also Launch links; therefore, it will never launch any other Character Sets. If you're launching REENIELAPx, you will NEVER get more than one Character to load.