Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:53 pm
Re: It Look like Is boxer is against EQ2 Eula
You're already using "3rd party programs" whether you understand that or not 
If you are wary of "using 3rd party software" -- then don't.
Thanks for posting what you were told, though it would of course help to know what questions you asked exactly.
Different people (And GMs for that matter) have different ideas of what constitutes "automation". If you ask 10 different people, even on these forums, you're going to get a different answer. It's a really vague term. Fooooor example... the car I drive. It's called an automobile -- auto meaning automatic. However, the car does NOT automatically take me anywhere, I have to drive it myself. My automatic transmission, on the other hand, is automatically shifting gears. So there is certainly automation going on at some level. The same vague arguments can be made about pretty much anything. When you hit 1, the game is "automatically" casting a spell, because you assigned a spell to the button in the game. We can go on all week (month or year) on this topic
That GM's explanation is kind of confusing and contradictory.
He says "you must be actively controlling the characters in question" like having one key go to two windows is somehow less "actively controlling" than having one key go to one window and another key go to the other. It sounds like he wants you to be focused on the individual window, but then says it's okay not to be in some contexts but not others.
Either way, this is a topic that people in general, and even the game companies, do not have a firm understanding of. So let's take the GM's own example of Q and Z sending something different to 2 different windows being allowed. If you push both of those at the same time with two fingers (so pressing Q uses a heal or buff macro on your priest, and Z taunts something on your warrior, and these both happen at the same time), is that considered "automation"? What if you bridge the two keys, with a popsicle stick, is that considered "automation"? If so, why? (And how would they expect to ban anyone for that?) And if not, why is it considered "automation" if the popsicle stick is in software instead of physically attached to your keyboard?
This scenario was specifically addressed this year by EVE Online (and this is also detailed on the "Is ISBoxer Allowed?" page). A player was suspended for 3 days for using ISBoxer to broadcast to multiple windows at the same time. In response, he brought our hypothetical popsicle stick scenario into reality, and shared pictures that subsequently went all over the internet.
Shortly afterward, EVE's policy on multiboxing was clarified as follows:
This is the most clear explanation any MMO publisher has given to date, that I've seen.
If you're told by an EQ2 GM not to broadcast to multiple windows with one key, then it is up to you to follow their guidance -- but that alone isn't going to get you banned. There are many people using ISBoxer in EQ2 with or without broadcasting, and you certainly do not need to use that feature of ISBoxer. EQ2's policy is mostly driven by what is explained at the top of "Is ISBoxer Allowed?" which is essentially that if you are using your multiboxing as a tool to disrupt and grief other players, THEY WILL BAN YOU (this is covered by the EQ2 Rules of Conduct, link below). And so will other companies. Otherwise, they probably couldn't care any less. They're already getting what they want (your money) and if you're not ruining someone's day then nobody is going to lodge a serious complaint. And they're certainly not going out of their way to detect you using ISBoxer to terminate your account. They don't WANT to ban you.
Anyway, getting down to the EULA...
EQ2 EULA: http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12248
EQ2 Rules of Conduct: http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16213
SOE Terms of Service: http://www.soe.com/en/termsofservice.vm
The EULA has zero mention of any policy regarding automation, cheats, hacks, or even "third party software". Here are the reasons SOE says they will reprimand you:
It does link it to having to abide by the Terms of Service and the Rules of Conduct. Here's the relevant part of the Terms of Service:
So there they outline different activities that are unacceptable for software to do, the most relevant being "enable or facilitate cheating of any type" -- vague and up to their discretion what exactly "cheating" means.
And finally the Rules of Conduct say
(ISBoxer cannot do either of these).
And finally...
From http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=25&topic_id=465301#5186049
SOE does not WANT to ban you. They are not going to tell you that they don't want your money, unless you do something to provoke it. With all that said, if the reason you're trying to find out if ISBoxer is allowed is so you can tradeskill on a bunch of accounts simultaneously to generate real life profit, it really doesn't matter if you use ISBoxer, the bot you said you were using, or if you're doing it one account at a time, it's still against the rules and this entire thread is irrelevant.
If you are wary of "using 3rd party software" -- then don't.Thanks for posting what you were told, though it would of course help to know what questions you asked exactly.
Different people (And GMs for that matter) have different ideas of what constitutes "automation". If you ask 10 different people, even on these forums, you're going to get a different answer. It's a really vague term. Fooooor example... the car I drive. It's called an automobile -- auto meaning automatic. However, the car does NOT automatically take me anywhere, I have to drive it myself. My automatic transmission, on the other hand, is automatically shifting gears. So there is certainly automation going on at some level. The same vague arguments can be made about pretty much anything. When you hit 1, the game is "automatically" casting a spell, because you assigned a spell to the button in the game. We can go on all week (month or year) on this topic
That GM's explanation is kind of confusing and contradictory.
mapping abilities to different keys to control characters would be allowed (example would be Q using a heal or buff macro on your priest and Z Taunting something on your Warrior). The best way to think of it is if you control multiple characters with 1 button press, that's going to be considered automation, you must be actively controlling the characters in question
He says "you must be actively controlling the characters in question" like having one key go to two windows is somehow less "actively controlling" than having one key go to one window and another key go to the other. It sounds like he wants you to be focused on the individual window, but then says it's okay not to be in some contexts but not others.
Either way, this is a topic that people in general, and even the game companies, do not have a firm understanding of. So let's take the GM's own example of Q and Z sending something different to 2 different windows being allowed. If you push both of those at the same time with two fingers (so pressing Q uses a heal or buff macro on your priest, and Z taunts something on your warrior, and these both happen at the same time), is that considered "automation"? What if you bridge the two keys, with a popsicle stick, is that considered "automation"? If so, why? (And how would they expect to ban anyone for that?) And if not, why is it considered "automation" if the popsicle stick is in software instead of physically attached to your keyboard?
This scenario was specifically addressed this year by EVE Online (and this is also detailed on the "Is ISBoxer Allowed?" page). A player was suspended for 3 days for using ISBoxer to broadcast to multiple windows at the same time. In response, he brought our hypothetical popsicle stick scenario into reality, and shared pictures that subsequently went all over the internet.
Shortly afterward, EVE's policy on multiboxing was clarified as follows:
To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times.
Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping).
An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time!
Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA.
I hope this clears up this matter.
This is the most clear explanation any MMO publisher has given to date, that I've seen.
If you're told by an EQ2 GM not to broadcast to multiple windows with one key, then it is up to you to follow their guidance -- but that alone isn't going to get you banned. There are many people using ISBoxer in EQ2 with or without broadcasting, and you certainly do not need to use that feature of ISBoxer. EQ2's policy is mostly driven by what is explained at the top of "Is ISBoxer Allowed?" which is essentially that if you are using your multiboxing as a tool to disrupt and grief other players, THEY WILL BAN YOU (this is covered by the EQ2 Rules of Conduct, link below). And so will other companies. Otherwise, they probably couldn't care any less. They're already getting what they want (your money) and if you're not ruining someone's day then nobody is going to lodge a serious complaint. And they're certainly not going out of their way to detect you using ISBoxer to terminate your account. They don't WANT to ban you.
Anyway, getting down to the EULA...
EQ2 EULA: http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12248
EQ2 Rules of Conduct: http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16213
SOE Terms of Service: http://www.soe.com/en/termsofservice.vm
The EULA has zero mention of any policy regarding automation, cheats, hacks, or even "third party software". Here are the reasons SOE says they will reprimand you:
6. We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) and/or suspend your Account immediately and without notice: (i) if you violate any provision of this Agreement; (ii) infringe any third party intellectual property rights; (iii) if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us; (iv) upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which we, in our sole discretion, determine is inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game; (v) upon any violation of the Station Terms of Service and/or the Game Rules of Conduct and/or (vi) upon any violation of the Exchange Agreement. If we terminate this Agreement or suspend your Account under these circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the duration of the suspension and/or the balance of any prepaid period without any refund. We may also terminate this Agreement if we decide, in our sole discretion, to discontinue offering the Game, in which case we may provide you with a prorated refund of any prepaid amounts.
It does link it to having to abide by the Terms of Service and the Rules of Conduct. Here's the relevant part of the Terms of Service:
D. CONSENT TO MONITOR
Please note that some games available on or through The Station may, when in operation, monitor your computer's random access memory, MAC address, and system and configuration files, crash data, etc. for the purpose of monitoring and improving quality and service and also for the purpose of identifying unauthorized third party programs running concurrently with your game which, in SOE's sole determination: (i) enable or facilitate cheating of any type; (ii) allow users to modify or hack the applicable game interface, environment, and/or experience in any way not expressly authorized by SOE; or (iii) intercept, "mine" or otherwise collect information from or through the applicable game (an "Unauthorized Third Party Program"). In the event that a game detects an Unauthorized Third Party Program, (a) the game may communicate information back to SOE, including without limitation your Station Account username, details about the Unauthorized Third Party Program detected and the activities or functions performed thereby, and/or details about your computer, and/or (b) SOE may exercise any or all of its rights and remedies under this Agreement or the applicable game end user license agreement without prior notice to the user linked to such Unauthorized Third Party Program.
So there they outline different activities that are unacceptable for software to do, the most relevant being "enable or facilitate cheating of any type" -- vague and up to their discretion what exactly "cheating" means.
And finally the Rules of Conduct say
11. You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into, or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running EverQuest II.
.
.
.
You may not use any software or hardware to alter game play in any way, or to gain benefits from unattended game play.
(ISBoxer cannot do either of these).
And finally...
From http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=25&topic_id=465301#5186049
First, I locked the thread for a reason. This generally means that restarting the discussion will result in yet another locked thread.
Secondly, the policy is not NEW. There hasn't been a change to policy or the EULA.
That clause has always been there. That is what allows us to nuke the farmers and plat sellers that we all loathe so much.
If you're not doing something you shouldn't be doing, multi-boxing is fine.
Those who wish to look for loopholes to allow them to do it in shady ways always will. There is nothing in there that says you cannot multi-box. It just says you can't use a program to automate it.
People are over-reacting and troll-feeding. And really... holiday weight gain or no, the trolls don't need the extra calories.
Please stop trying to read into it anything that says we're going to start nuking our legitimate players for playing more than one account at a time... Holiday drama belongs with the extended family gatherings and in-laws... Not here
SOE does not WANT to ban you. They are not going to tell you that they don't want your money, unless you do something to provoke it. With all that said, if the reason you're trying to find out if ISBoxer is allowed is so you can tradeskill on a bunch of accounts simultaneously to generate real life profit, it really doesn't matter if you use ISBoxer, the bot you said you were using, or if you're doing it one account at a time, it's still against the rules and this entire thread is irrelevant.