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Banned for idling, and they wouldnt unban

Moderator: MiRai

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Venidor215

Posts: 6

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:17 am

Post Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:38 pm

Banned for idling, and they wouldnt unban

Hello, i have been using isboxer/innerspace for some time to box in lotro, but some days ago, i was banned while playing.
I emailed the support to have some explanations. Here is what the gm boss said about it :

It is forbidden to create, use or distribute any kind of software or hardware (without restricting to macro, bots, server emulators ..) any software used with lotro is illegal, so i am sorry to say your accounts will remain banned...

I was boxing with only innerspace+isboxer and g15 for hardware level, never boted and much less use any automatic program that navigate by himself... so discussing with him, he says, g15, innerspace and isboxer is illegal with lotro !!!!
Pretty disgusted about this ... i still was low level, playing very casually at hours when my wife was working late, having accounts that were lifetime sub banned is pretty hard... what a waste, i dont think i was annoying anyone, i was just playing ...

Best regards and farewell ...
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portlimo

Posts: 12

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:50 pm

Post Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Wow that is a shock

after reading this thread particularily about isboxer that was in the main forum:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=303623

I thought isboxer was okay, as it is not a bot, and every action requires a human
behind a screen pushing a key to get an action, albiet on more than one character

I have to ask but was there any other things going on?

The legacy stacking, skirmish control point, skirmish boss re-sets, and even receiving
items someone paid for by using ill gotten skirmish marks(even items not asked for)
has lead to bans but this is the first time hearing isboxer or g15 there are TONS
using those keyboards, was illegal...

sorry to hear about the loss of your account...
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Ualaa

Grandmaster Guidesmith

Posts: 714

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Post Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

First off, sorry for your loss.



Secondly, assuming there was no mistake on their part, and that there was no loops, unattended play etc, on your part...

If they're going to the extreme of a G15 (assuming its just push G1 = send this keybind to the game, and not a looping/toggle type macro) is considered illegal in their game...

Or if IS Boxer/IS, which requires input for every character option...

They are essentially saying, please do not multi-box in our game.
Streaming in 720p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
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eqjoe

Posts: 4

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:06 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

LOTS of players are using IS+ISBoxer with LOTRO. So everyone that uses IS+ISBoxer with LOTRO got whacked?


If the answer to that question is no, then please tell us the real story regarding your ban?
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lax

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 6908

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:32 pm

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:53 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Yeah, this is the only report so far. There's a guy that's been doing it for a while with ISBoxer -- almost a year now -- and he has like a dozen youtube videos up, etc. (lotromultiboxing)

But, giving the benefit of the doubt...

LOTRO Code of Conduct #18 - source
18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).


That's interesting. Their code of conduct is suggesting that if you are a software developer you can be banned from LOTRO, even if your software isn't LOTRO related. Or regardless of whether you develop software, if any software besides LOTRO is installed on your PC you can be banned. You have to have express written permission to use X-Fire, FRAPS, Ventrilo, music or video players, a web browser, the Logitech Keyboard Profiler, etc, according to this rule. They are all third-party software (you and Turbine are the first and second parties, everyone else is a third party). I'd say A) the rule is overreaching by far and should be rewritten (to be more specific and limit it to things that somehow relate to the subject matter...), and B) the GM you spoke to probably had no idea what it was he was dealing with. He did enforce the rule as written, though.

The best way to get it rewritten might just be to get a bunch of people involved and request express written permission to use or develop software that is unrelated to LOTRO, for fear that they might get banned. Like, completely benign software. Firefox, iTunes, etc. I don't foresee it happening, but hey ;)

I don't know that anyone would want to enforce this catch-all rule unless you were doing something else though.
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Xtremepayne

Posts: 47

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:10 pm

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Make that 2 people. I just renewed about a month ago. In all that time I haven't even had a comment from a GM about boxing. In fact I think they already know and were fine with it. I even spoke with turbine on the phone once when I had a billing issue. I brought it up then and they said I was fine then as well.
But, being that it was a person who did the ban, their perspective may have been different due to being new or some other reason. Correct me if I am wrong but others have contacted companies like Blizzard and got them to lift bans.
My point here is call them and get more detail. If it truely was just the G15 and Innerspace with ISBoxer, then talking with someone might be enough to reinstate your account.
Hey Lax, Wouldn't that make Microsoft a 3rd party? hehehe So much for playing lotro anymore ;)
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Venidor215

Posts: 6

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:17 am

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:52 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Ok, lets go for the full story ...

First, i am belgian and playing on euro servers, on french non rp server Sirranon to be precise (so forgive my english, it is only my 3rd language). There aren't plenty of multiboxers there ... i think i must be the first to try 6 boxing there until now.

My lotro adventure started 2 years ago with a single character (a captain), took me about 1 year to get him 50 as i was very casual, he was very new to 50 when mines of moria got out. I got to 60 pretty fast after this because my work changed and i had more time to play (can t remind precisely, maybe took me 2 months or a bit less). I started to get bored, reading arround, i felt on http://www.dual-boxing.com, gave me the idea to try multiboxing in lotro, on the same site i found out about a soft called octopus, i tryed it opening new accounts for a mini and a champ (was playing on the champion and using numpad to send 1-9 keys to mini, 1 of the keys was follow) it wasn't too bad, and fun to play, except gather quests that where boring ... got them to mid 30 this way.

After this i made a pause, a familly member got me back in eq game with some very old friends (played eq from the start to the 5 th expension), i was already multiboxing there long long ago, before any software, i had 3 computers at that time and just used them at the same time playing tank, chaining complete heal with cleric and dpsing with mage pet and a few spells, without any software or hardware. So was about by that time i bought a innerspace licence (was the end of march 2009), but for everquest at the start. As i only had 2 computers left, but wanted to use only one playing eq. A few months after this i got bored of farming aa all my days off without advancing much in the game... i received an offer from codemaster to go back to lotro and buy lifetime sub at a very small time (must have been arround 120$) so i reactivated my 3 accounts in lifetime. Playing both games for a moment.

Having used innerspace with everquest i tryed it on lotro. But i did not multibox too much at that time. I stopped everquest again, and as the idea of full group boxing was starting in my mind ... i took another account and started a loremaster, was on duo with a rl friend to level him up to about 29. Again my friend changed of character, and me still wanting to try 6 box, i started the 2 remaining accounts, 1 hunter and 1 guardian, i leveled both at once this time, using isboxer. Got them to mid 20 and then i started to add my previous characters, one by one.

I stopped a 4 at once for time, was easy setup and still on only one comp (only a few attack keys and follow). But i was starting to reach the limit the computer could handle as well as visual confort playing. So with my work allowing me get stuff back from old or broken computers, i did grab and put back together some materials, and could have a few dual core computer at my disposal. Took me some time, i did build a custom desk myself, completly redone my room where the computers are ... worked hard on end year 2009 hollidays and at the beginning of 2010.

Started trying adding computers one by one at about mid january 2010 cf : http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4546, where i ask some questions ... (had troubles when adding the second computer, but with the tutorial i was able to do it pretty fast, before that i was using ualaa guides on dual boxing for keys setup)

So the next day of the above i got everything working fine ! what a blast, i could play full screen on each comp and my team was all together, it went fast and the level started to normalize between characters, got them to 40 (exept the captain that was already 60 and i only took him a few quests and traits i missed previously.

Everything was starting to get good, i added a few class specific hotkeys, configured g keys with innerspace.
Was missing the manoeuvers, but i was too lazy and eager to play.

A few days later, on saterday 30 th january, i logged in the afternoon to play (my wife was working until 10pm), i was in aughaire, having done the armor quests at 38-39, i wanted to finish the previous zone so i went back to esteldin, doing quests objectives on the way, and killing wurms for trait in ram duath. Got back to bank in esteldin after a few quest, sold stuff, cleared my bags and arranged banks, i did a few changes on cosmetic too on 2 of my characters, did send some mathoms to a guildie that was looking for them, had a chat in guild... well took me over 1h in esteldin. After that i alt tabbed my main to look for quest prerequisites in fornost. Decided to go dol dinen kill the uruk leader to unlock a quest in fornost. Went that way, fighting on the direct road up the hill. When i came by 3rd gate, my tank (the main character i play) got a black screen in middle a fight ... you have been banned... i finish fight with my captain alone and tp all my remaining group to a safe spot with hunt.

I leave the slaves at the safe spot, i just reconnect my captain on main computer to start a ticket, no more than 1 minute later, i got a gm in tells. Chatting with him was very strange, he told me he suspected me to be bot, that he watched me and tryed to conctact me ... for him he said i was standing near a npc in esteldin and doing nothing until he decided to hit the ban stick... and then he said, that all my characters went link dead as soon as he banned my main ... that is very strange since i was fighting my way in dol dinen ... then tped the group to a safe place after the fight where my guardian was banned, and more i did not disconnect any other character than my captain to switch to main computer ... After having a long polite chat with him, he tells me to contact this email : LOTRO.GMReport@codemasters.com , and to be very precise on what i am was doing, how i was multiboxing so told him i was using is and isboxer, i had a g15 and everything that went on that afternoon... (at that time only one account was banned for several days)

So i did email them, told them all i did in the afternoon ...
I got a resonse only yesterday, from +Urdson Senior Games Master Codemasters Online Support Team.

Here it is in french :

Je vous remercie de prendre le temps de nous écrire au sujet de la suspension de votre compte.
Je désire dans un premier temps vous informer que ceci est le premier message que je vous envoie, il est donc normal que vous n’ayez pas reçu d’autre message à ce sujet précédemment.
Concernant la suspension de votre compte, bien que je puisse vous confirmer que l’utilisation de plusieurs comptes (ou multi-boxing) n’est pas une infraction à notre charte de comportement, l’utilisation de programme tiers est bel et bien sanctionnée, comme nous le stipulons dans notre Code de Conduite que vous avez accepté lors de la création de votre compte :
« 18. Il est interdit de créer, poster, utiliser ou distribuer quelque utilitaire, émulateur ou outil logiciel que ce soit d’un tiers (y compris, sans s’y limiter, les programmes de macro ou programmes robots, les émulateurs de serveur, les programmes de piratage de carte ou de client et les utilitaires de collecte de données). »

Par conséquent, je me vois au regret de vous informer que votre compte restera suspendu ainsi que tout autre compte avec lequel vous avez pu utilisé ces logiciels.

So to make it short, he says that mutiboxing is not forbidden but using ANY software to do that is against eula..

He mentioned the same article that you did, lax ... 18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).

And so a few minutes later all accounts where banned. Since i admited using isboxer and innerspace. And he says that he had not to check log since i admited using software ...

I don t know if things are different between us and eu on multibox tolerance, but that point 18... is so unprecise that they really can ban at will...
Anyone playing on eu, might know where can i ask the question more precisely and defend myself other than LOTRO.GMReport@codemasters.com ?

Best regards, thanks for reading me.
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Venidor215

Posts: 6

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:17 am

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:57 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Forgot a fine translation of : je puisse vous confirmer que l’utilisation de plusieurs comptes (ou multi-boxing) n’est pas une infraction à notre charte de comportement, l’utilisation de programme tiers est bel et bien sanctionnée.

is : I can confirm you that the use of multiple accounts (multiboxing) is not forbidden, but the use a software is..
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kasmar45

Posts: 50

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:05 pm

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:11 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Okay... Here is the deal.. For some reason Turbine are very sensitive to bots. Maybe because of the mess that was made in AC1 when Microsoft controlled it, who knows. If you play LOTRO then you know that crafting very large amounts of some resources can take a very long time. Crafting 2 or 3 hundred pelts for instance can take close to an hour with you having to do nothing but sit and watch and sit and watch you had better do. The reason being, if a Turbine GM suspects you are a bot, they will send you a tell. If you do not answer their tell... BAM... They will ban you. You probably could have gotten the ban lifted had you not told them you were running ISBoxer.

Your post title is a little misleading. You were initially banned for not responding to a GM tell, not for using ISBoxer. ISBoxer is okay to use as long as you do not use the key repeat feature to do any action repetitively unassisted. If you use key repeat for what it was designed for then you are okay.
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lax

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 6908

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:32 pm

Post Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:31 am

Re: Banned for using isboxer/innerspace

Hey Lax, Wouldn't that make Microsoft a 3rd party? hehehe So much for playing lotro anymore ;)

Yes, Microsoft is a 3rd party (everyone except you and Turbine and/or codemasters). They could ban you for using Windows as per the cited rule. And yeah there's plenty of people boxing LOTRO with ISBoxer, the one I mentioned is just well known and has been using it for a long time.

After hearing the story and the reason for the initial ban, it makes sense. The GM simply suspected he was cheating, and did a pre-emptive strike. Then, he admitted to breaking Code of Conduct rule #18 (which every last person who plays LOTRO is breaking) so they left the ban enforced and didn't bother to do any research. That's really crappy for them to do.

There IS usually a disconnect between the US and EU enforcement policies though.
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