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Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

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barrenearth

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Post Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

Bob... I wasn't talking about EVE. The service I was referring to was Lavish.
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bob

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League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

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Post Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

barrenearth wrote:Bob... I wasn't talking about EVE. The service I was referring to was Lavish.

My mistake, I should have re-read your earlier post. Just reading your later post that was not clear.

Putting some thought into the question of providing a refund for remaining Lavish subscription time. Who are you expecting to provide this refund? Lavish? It was not Lavish that changed the rules on EVE. Lavish has no control over CCP or their rules or their implementation of those rules. You can still use Innerspace/ISBoxer for other games, even though you may not desire to play them. You can still use ISBoxer/Innerspace on EVE as per the forum posts, even if it is a teeny bit more arduous.

How about an analogy. The smoking people of Ireland, NZ, Australia, UK (and potentially others) have not asked for refunds from tobacco companies when smoking was banned in restaurants, bars, theatres, workplaces, etc. In this case the governments have implemented a new rule, which affected some people, and the product has been rendered impotent in certain places; So should those affected people who have purchased that product and have remaining stock be able to claim a refund for their stock from Phillip Morris or BAT (or others)??

If anything you should be expecting CCP to compensate you for reducing the effectiveness of the 3rd party software that you licensed specifically to play their game with greater efficiency.

I am confident Lax would be more than happy to communicate with CCP, if they are willing, and perhaps he has already tried, or in the process, and perhaps he will chime in and let us know if that ever happens. There have already been changes to ISBoxer comply with the EVE rules as per CCP's forum post. I suspect he could go further and modify Innerspace to have a mode to never send a command to more than one game window too, and maybe that is on the radar. We will have to wait and see.
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barrenearth

Posts: 13

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:30 pm

Post Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:14 am

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

bob wrote:
barrenearth wrote:Bob... I wasn't talking about EVE. The service I was referring to was Lavish.

My mistake, I should have re-read your earlier post. Just reading your later post that was not clear.

Putting some thought into the question of providing a refund for remaining Lavish subscription time. Who are you expecting to provide this refund? Lavish? It was not Lavish that changed the rules on EVE. Lavish has no control over CCP or their rules or their implementation of those rules. You can still use Innerspace/ISBoxer for other games, even though you may not desire to play them. You can still use ISBoxer/Innerspace on EVE as per the forum posts, even if it is a teeny bit more arduous.

How about an analogy. The smoking people of Ireland, NZ, Australia, UK (and potentially others) have not asked for refunds from tobacco companies when smoking was banned in restaurants, bars, theatres, workplaces, etc. In this case the governments have implemented a new rule, which affected some people, and the product has been rendered impotent in certain places; So should those affected people who have purchased that product and have remaining stock be able to claim a refund for their stock from Phillip Morris or BAT (or others)??

If anything you should be expecting CCP to compensate you for reducing the effectiveness of the 3rd party software that you licensed specifically to play their game with greater efficiency.

I am confident Lax would be more than happy to communicate with CCP, if they are willing, and perhaps he has already tried, or in the process, and perhaps he will chime in and let us know if that ever happens. There have already been changes to ISBoxer comply with the EVE rules as per CCP's forum post. I suspect he could go further and modify Innerspace to have a mode to never send a command to more than one game window too, and maybe that is on the radar. We will have to wait and see.



Your analogy is not a good one. A better one would be Tesla being a car company in America that makes cars with the expressed warranty that those cars are valid to be used on motorways in states across the country. Say one day that Michigan decides to ban Teslas from the roadways and declare them invalid for registration from the DMV... Tesla didn't ban the cars, but those who recently bought them would have perfect grounds for class action lawsuit against the company for implied terms of use.

Not at all advocating anything that extreme, just saying, the wait and see approach is not exactly what I would expect from a subscription based consumer model. Like the podcast guys all asked, "What in the world could CCP hope to gain, and where will it stop when they realize it isn't going to accomplish what they want"
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lax

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Post Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:37 am

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

Your analogy is not a good one. A better one would be Tesla being a car company in America that makes cars with the expressed warranty that those cars are valid to be used on motorways in states across the country. Say one day that Michigan decides to ban Teslas from the roadways and declare them invalid for registration from the DMV...

Uhh, more like Michigan decides to ban certain capabilities from the driver-viewable screen, like watching a movie as you drive.

They're not banning ISBoxer, so your analogy is not a good one.

Not at all advocating anything that extreme, just saying, the wait and see approach is not exactly what I would expect from a subscription based consumer model.

You know what they say about people who assume things...
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barrenearth

Posts: 13

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Post Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:41 am

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

@LAX... Sir it's your BBQ and it tastes real good. But all we can do is assume until we are given information. That was what I was advocating.

Like the podcasters said, I am not going to risk $200 a month in subscription to EvE when a clear cut delineation of a rule that was previously bent and now only half enforced goes into effect. As far as I am concerned, ISBoxer is dead until they spell out DXNothing or Round Robin is acceptable.

And the analogy was spot on. What CCP is asking us to do is move to a different play style. Just as Tesla would argue that you can drive in the other 49 states.
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lax

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Post Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:31 am

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

Your analogy is not spot on because your analogy bans an entire product. CCP is not banning the product. Just stop using ISBoxer if you think that's the new rule; you don't even have to keep posting in that case.

They have already spelled out in CCP Falcon's original post that Video FX ("DxNothing") is fine, as long as you're only interacting with the one window at a time and not broadcasting your interaction to multiple windows. There is no question about that whatsoever.

Round-robin (where you press a button and an input goes to exactly one window, each time you press it) is also not prohibited by the new rule; however, the people who want to combine round-robin with a programmable keyboard macro to try to somehow technically get the same behavior (you press one button, and that button initiates input to more than one window) will be violating the rule.

It's not really that hard to follow the rule change.


I'd say the real issue is that multiboxers will be reported by players regardless of your methods of multiboxing (you don't even need ISBoxer to get in on this action) due to the misconception that it is banned altogether. Just don't be using some shady technical workaround like round-robin plus autofire when CCP asks what you're doing.

all we can do is assume until we are given information

Frankly until I have something important to add, I didn't think I need to keep chiming in with the same information after every 5 posts in order to satisfy barrenearth. My bad.
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bugme143

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Post Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:06 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

lax wrote:Your analogy is not spot on because your analogy bans an entire product. CCP is not banning the product. Just stop using ISBoxer if you think that's the new rule; you don't even have to keep posting in that case.


Unfortunatly now the rumors are going around that CCP is going to ban ISBoxer down the road, and given their predilection for saying everything is fine and dandy until it's vacation time, when they post a "this is now banned!" thread and disappear for the next month and hope it blows over, there isn't much you can do. I'm sorry, but it seems ISBoxer is on the chopping block for EVE Online.
I'm an EVE bro with extended knowledge of incursions. Feel free to contact me here.
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Kamikaze

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Post Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

I would disagree that ISBoxer is anywhere near being banned.

CCP is a business. They develop this game to make money and money will always be the bottom line.

Game imbalances specifically with input broadcasting brought this about and all of us know that with a little more effort we can do as we've always done and continue to use isboxer profitably in game.

They were very careful to be explicit about what is banned because they do not want to lose the subscriptions/plex purchases that isboxers make. Even though some jump the gun and biomass all their accounts I would say that's a foolish move unless you just wanted to get out of the game regardless and used the change to make a big stink on the way out. I wouldn't stress so much. isboxer gives you tons of clever alternative ways to manage what you used to rely on broadcasting for.
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barrenearth

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Post Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:38 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

They were very careful to be explicit about what is banned because they do not want to lose the subscriptions/plex purchases that isboxers make.


This is clearly not the case. They specifically left out names of any programs on purpose and according to their dev team did so in order to leave their options open in the future to ban users of software as they see fit. They couldn't care less about anyone using isboxer or any other program, they care about the current mob mentality that is anti-all things candy giving.
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bugme143

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Post Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:50 pm

Re: Important update to EVE Online rules coming January 2015

Kamikaze wrote:I would disagree that ISBoxer is anywhere near being banned.
CCP is a business. They develop this game to make money and money will always be the bottom line.
Game imbalances specifically with input broadcasting brought this about and all of us know that with a little more effort we can do as we've always done and continue to use isboxer profitably in game.
They were very careful to be explicit about what is banned because they do not want to lose the subscriptions/plex purchases that isboxers make. Even though some jump the gun and biomass all their accounts I would say that's a foolish move unless you just wanted to get out of the game regardless and used the change to make a big stink on the way out. I wouldn't stress so much. isboxer gives you tons of clever alternative ways to manage what you used to rely on broadcasting for.


Except they knew they would be killing the larger bomber boxers, the larger incursion boxers, and anyone who is tired of being bashed over the head with a rubber dildo over and over.
I'm an EVE bro with extended knowledge of incursions. Feel free to contact me here.
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