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Help! With uh.. Everything

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TempusX

Posts: 4

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm

Post Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:05 pm

Help! With uh.. Everything

I'm not even sure to begin with what I don't understand, almost a case of not knowing what you don't know. First off, I'd like to congratulate the designer of ISBoxer...I'm fairly savvy around unfamiliar software, hardware and programming applications and have no trouble picking things up. I feel like I'm relatively intelligent, but attempting to use this has reduced me to what feels like being a mouthbreathing knuckledragger. This is my 2nd week long trial, and it's not going so hot this time either sadly.

I've looked through some of the various wiki articles with basic setup and videos, and walked away completely confused. Firerescue17's stickied thread on the basics looked good, but he lost me immediately with key bindings. Many of the videos are great, but to me at least, it's been a series of "This is what I can do with ISBoxer" but no actual "This is how it's done".

So here's what I've accomplished so far, what doesn't work (hint: nothing works), current / future setup, and my box team(s), plus what I want to do with software. I'm hoping you old pros can dumb this down enough that I actually understand up from down.

Installed isboxer and inner space. Ran the initial wizard and chose... MMO Standard. The uh, default option. I set up the follow and assist keys in the menu when it prompted me, and I managed to create a 3 player team that is stacked on 1 screen. Once in game, the follow and assist keys never did anything. To remedy that, I moved my 3 ingame socials (/target SK, /follow) to the same key ( "=" ), and then turn broastcast on to make everybody follow the tank, then broadcast back off. The group invite solution was similar. socials on the cheerleader boxes that is simply "/inv" (to accept an invite they have already), and a social on the tank that invites all of the characters. again, broastcast on, shift+3 (for the hotbar the social is on), then 1 to invite/accept.
That is the extent of what I was able to get ISBoxer to accomplish. I stopped using it because in trials, i found my cheerleaders would often gate or origin (which is at a key i never hit, not even accidentally) during normal combat. I also experienced issues with alt tabbing to a browser, clicking back in and having my mouse frozen (so no cursor, but screen moved around via mouselook), and also the moment i tabbed back in, the 3 characters would all run in different directions. This is all on a default wizard install. I have no idea what gives.

Also, after discussing with a friend, he sorta explained the videoFX bit. uh, it took me 4 or 5 hours to figure the basics of this out (lets not discuss how long figured anything else took). I managed to get spell bars and group windows from my cheerleaders to my main screen, and able to click into them. My pal says he uses a nostromo to hotkey through videofx instead of manually clicking. No idea how that works. Nice, but it seems to take up a lot of screen real estate.

I currently run a 2 screen setup, and prior to isboxer, alt-tab through screens, manually cast the entire main screen. the two side screems (shammy/mage), have socials to sent pets, slow, and dot. the mage has one for sending pet and nuking. That's the extent of the socials. So, SK - SHM - MAG is the default team. I flip the SHM for a CLR occasionally. I also will usually have 1-3 other people in my group played by, well, 1-3 others.

Due to work, I'll be switching to a 17" laptop, and that is significantly more difficult to box on, just less ability to see what's happening.

What I want to do:

Be able to play the main character without tabbing to the two cheerleaders. So the mage can nuke, send pet, or whatever else is required of him, and the shaman (or cleric) can heal whomever requires it, slow/dot mobs, etc. I realize ISBoxer does not automate gameplay, so this has to be done via socials and hotkeys / keymaps or clickbar menus (I saw these in firerscue17's Aten Ha Ra video.. no idea what they do).
I want to be able to play, efficiently from the main, have the two cheerleaders follow me, unless I get to a camp, then have them stop following. Have them do their tasks as necessary, and, for multiples, I'm not really sure how to tackle the shaman slowing all mobs.. I currently manually aggro each on the tank then manually slow them all. Which is super inefficient.

Looking for the best way to set this up, be it videofx and hotkeys, or all hotkeys or with these clickbar menu things, or entirely on a keybank. At this time, I have 5 programmable keys on the keyboard (razer blackwidow), and looking at the idea of snagging a razer keypad thing.. I dont see an actual nostromo selling anymore, but a few newer models... since my laptop has software programmable keys, but no real additional programmable keys to work with, i assume the keybank is easier.

Any help is greatly appreciated! I really want to like this and be a user, but the learning curve feels like a sheer wall so far :shock:
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bob

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Post Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:48 pm

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

Ok, lets start simple-ish.

To start out with, we shouldn't make this complicated by introducing the slash command setup, but for future reference, you can use a funky method in EQ1 that works quite well (but does take some a bit of setup and mind bending), if you ensure your toon names are 8 characters or less.

Anyway. When you run through the Quick Setup Wizard, and select EQ1, it will default a number of settings on the final wizard page. You can leave most of them alone. The few bits you are interested in are these highlighted bits.

Image

Set the Follow Target to the value of the in game keybind you are using for a social for "/follow" (this should be all it contains)
Set the Assist Target to the value of the in game keybind you are using for a social for "/assist" (this should be all it contains)

In the Targeting box, this one is a little more tricky to understand, and it generally requires you to be in game and partied up to get the correct results, but it can be changed later, although it is in a slightly different format. In most MMO's the party selectors will depend on the order in which toons are invited/accept invites to the party (although normally F1/F2 are consistent in use). When using this setup in ISBoxer, then it also adds to the invite/accept order with the requirement that each toon must be logged into the correct slot. A slot being the instance of the game that gets started in the order. So when you make you team in ISBoxer, then the first character goes in Slot 1, the second in Slot 2, etc. When you start your team, the first account you log in should be the account for the character in Slot 1, the second account for the character in Slot 2, etc. End result, everything is all happy.
So for the table, read it from the top of the column, and then set the appropriate keys the characters in the rows. The default choices, are probably correct, so I'd try it as it is without changing anything.

So, you hit finish, then from the file menu, Export to Inner Space.

From there, the best choice is to launch you team from Inner Space; find the icon in the notification area (system tray), right click it, select ISBoxer Character Sets -> name of your team.
Log the accounts in, in the order for your team, log in the characters to the world, group them up (there is no default Invite setup, so do it manually for now). One that is done, the ones you want to check are the ALT+F for follow and ALT+A for assist. You can also check the 1 to = keys for the default config, which will send an Assist+Broadcast (of the key you press) to your toons, so you should be able to beat up stuff with the basic keys.

If that all works, that is stage one, and you/we can move on to getting the Invite/Accept working. If it doesn't work, share your config, and we'll check it out.
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TempusX

Posts: 4

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm

Post Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:28 am

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

Bob -

Huge thanks for helping out! It only took a half hour to figure that out, and I'm still not wrapping my skull around the F1/F2/F3 keys. I'll explain.

So some of my misunderstanding and confusion, I think stems from the very basic concept. I suppose it is assumed (and I didn't), that both hotbars and socials (such as /follow and /assist) need to populate those hotbars, and then actual keys assigned to those same socials/hotbars. My EQ setup has the basic 1 through = in hotbar 1 assigned (by default), but nothing else. Revelation!

So I created a hotbar for all 3 characters, set socials in slots 11 and 12 as /assist and /follow respectively, then bound all 3 accounts, in game, to use NUM / and NUM * respectively. Then set the two highlighted spaces you listed to the same.
In one instance, the cheerleaders followed whomever they had on target and not me. Couldn't reproduce. All 3 follow each other now however! So that's a gigantic success!

Problems I experienced:

1) I suspect this is an oversight on my part. With keymap on, broadcast off, when typing in chat, keymaps would trigger. I noticed this as I typed "2" in chat a couple times, and observed my nuke attempt to nuke and my shaman started trying to cast. What did I do wrong there?

2) The F1-F3 keys. Yeah, not getting this at all. I tried in in a group with others, and a group with myself, couldnt figure it out.

Load order is SK/SHM/MAG. So should be F1/F2/F3 from slot 1, F2/F1/F3 for slot 2, and F2/F3/F1 for slot 3.

Way I understand that, is:
From slot 1: F1 got Slot 1, F2 got Slot 2, F3 got Slot 3.
From slot 2: F1 got Slot 2, F2 got Slot 1, F3 got Slot 3.
From slot 3: F1 got Slot 3, F2 got Slot 1, F3 got Slot 2.

In a group of just myself, that is exactly how it worked. When I invited slot2 from 1, then slot 3 from 1. If I had other people in the group, the F1 keys targeted the current slot, f2 would pick up whomever was next in the group sort order, and F3 the next in group sort order. Whether it was my correct slot or not. I didnt test this long, so I could be wrong. Fiddling in game, it kinda makes sense. Here's a question: Could Slots 1,2, and 3 all be set to the same F keys to make memory easier? ie: For all 3, set F1 to target slot 1. F2 targets slot 2, and F3 always targets Slot 3? So if Slot 3 presses F3, he targets himself? Or is that a headache? I dont normally use the F keys to party target, but maybe it's useful in these circumstances?
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lax

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Post Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:20 am

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

1) I suspect this is an oversight on my part. With keymap on, broadcast off, when typing in chat, keymaps would trigger. I noticed this as I typed "2" in chat a couple times, and observed my nuke attempt to nuke and my shaman started trying to cast. What did I do wrong there?

1 through = by default are ISBoxer Hotkeys which broadcast to your team. When you intend to use any ISBoxer Hotkey for a purpose other than what it is Hotkeyed to do (e.g. in this case you want to type/chat instead of broadcasting 2 to all), temporarily disable the Hotkeys with Shift+Alt+M (or click the icon that started in the top left). ISBoxer cannot automatically know that you are typing in the chat window, it doesn't know what is going on in the game, just that you are pressing a key that is mapped, and the mapping is enabled. It's being instructed to send 2 to everyone, so it is.

2) The F1-F3 keys. Yeah, not getting this at all. I tried in in a group with others, and a group with myself, couldnt figure it out.

Load order is SK/SHM/MAG. So should be F1/F2/F3 from slot 1, F2/F1/F3 for slot 2, and F2/F3/F1 for slot 3.

Way I understand that, is:
From slot 1: F1 got Slot 1, F2 got Slot 2, F3 got Slot 3.
From slot 2: F1 got Slot 2, F2 got Slot 1, F3 got Slot 3.
From slot 3: F1 got Slot 3, F2 got Slot 1, F3 got Slot 2.

In a group of just myself, that is exactly how it worked. When I invited slot2 from 1, then slot 3 from 1. If I had other people in the group, the F1 keys targeted the current slot, f2 would pick up whomever was next in the group sort order, and F3 the next in group sort order. Whether it was my correct slot or not. I didnt test this long, so I could be wrong.

Right, well, that is the issue with using the F-keys for targeting your party. When you start changing up the group to not be your team anymore, the F-keys are not going to match up with your intended targets.

Fiddling in game, it kinda makes sense. Here's a question: Could Slots 1,2, and 3 all be set to the same F keys to make memory easier? ie: For all 3, set F1 to target slot 1. F2 targets slot 2, and F3 always targets Slot 3? So if Slot 3 presses F3, he targets himself? Or is that a headache? I dont normally use the F keys to party target, but maybe it's useful in these circumstances?

I think you meant to say something other than "Memory" -- you're not pressing the F-keys yourself, ISBoxer is doing it, so there's nothing for you to remember. Right?

No it can't be done to configure F1 to always target slot 1, F2 to always target slot 2, and F3 to always target slot 3 -- just leave those to the existing party targeting mechanics. If you want it to be working correctly whether you're in a group or not, you want a different follow/assist method. For example, you just told us you set up NUM / and NUM * to be /assist and /follow. Make it /assist <charname> and /follow <charname> and you've got the "Directly Follow/Assist designated Main Character" method ready to go.
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TempusX

Posts: 4

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm

Post Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:59 pm

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

lax wrote:1 through = by default are ISBoxer Hotkeys which broadcast to your team. When you intend to use any ISBoxer Hotkey for a purpose other than what it is Hotkeyed to do (e.g. in this case you want to type/chat instead of broadcasting 2 to all), temporarily disable the Hotkeys with Shift+Alt+M (or click the icon that started in the top left).


Okay. In previous attempts to use the software, I had thought I could type with keymap on and wasn't having keys trigger. Maybe I just didn't see it happening. So let me try to better understand, as turning keymap on/off to chat seems like a headache, at least initially as an isboxer newbie. Default, 1 through = are mapped in isboxer to their respective same keys in eq. If the input key was changed to a gamepad (which I still need to acquire), suppose, pressing Gamepad Key 2, translates to isboxer outputting numeral 2 (not numpad), in my hotbar... that would allow chatting without worrying about those hotkeys being triggered, right? Im sure there is a best practice here, but it feels like a lot to wrap my head around. I'm not even sure if im asking this question correctly. Initially I thought changing all of the output keys from a single letter, numeral, or shift+letter would resolve the need to turn keymap off to chat. But the input stroke in isboxer would still be 1 through =, so it would still trigr, but something else. I think. Or should I just get used to keymap always being in rapid-fire on/off states?



Right, well, that is the issue with using the F-keys for targeting your party. When you start changing up the group to not be your team anymore, the F-keys are not going to match up with your intended targets.

No it can't be done to configure F1 to always target slot 1, F2 to always target slot 2, and F3 to always target slot 3 -- just leave those to the existing party targeting mechanics. If you want it to be working correctly whether you're in a group or not, you want a different follow/assist method. For example, you just told us you set up NUM / and NUM * to be /assist and /follow. Make it /assist <charname> and /follow <charname> and you've got the "Directly Follow/Assist designated Main Character" method ready to go.


Still hazy on this F-key bit. Way I understood, was setting it up in ISB, allowed me to target slots 1-3, ssince the wizard configured that in a 3 man team. I launched without isb and had the same F1-3 functionality natively. So it's more or less functionality implemented for games that dont have EQ's F-key target system?

The follow bit, I think I understand. It works the way bob had me set it up.. from any character. I want to group 2-3 other people and see if that breaks it. Generally speaking the directly follow my tank method is ideal. in rare occasions the functionality to follow one of the cheerleaders is better. I'll report back after i con some folks to group up and let me learn.

I don't know if this makes much difference, I feel like y'all are trying to dumb this down and i'm still struggling (which drives me nuts)... But the whole concept of keybinding and using keys for everything is, still fairly new. I usually click everything, and in some instances have small socials in the hotbars provided to automate a couple things. Like one to assist, sent pet, nuke, and sit back down. but msot everything is manual clicking. Im trying, just it's all pretty new and fresh.
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TempusX

Posts: 4

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm

Post Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:14 am

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

Okay. About to pull my hair out. Probably because I'm trying to do something "advanced" without a total understanding. Two steps forward, then suddenly 7 steps backward.

I have follow and assist (partywide) working. That hasn't changed. Same keymaps as before.

Since I don't have a keypad (like a g13 or orbweaver) yet, I started wondering about the virtual keypad via click boxes. The really cool thing Firerescue17 did a big thread on. Then was superseded by menus. Trying to wrap my head around that.

I'm able to create menu grids of size/shape/positioning for one or three slots. Cool.
I can make them display on a keypress and poof after a click. Or keep them permanently up. Cool.

I briefly made a heal hotkey in one. And it worked! Very cool!
-- note-- Forget the exact details how I did this. Basically I set the shaman slot to target slot 1, then trigger an ingame heal hotkey. And only the shaman (slot 2) would do something for that key. Mage and SK did nothing (tested that!)

No idea how to replicate that. Tried for two hours and couldnt. Should have saved that as an XML somewhere.

Trying to make 1 menu for the Mage with say 10 keys (Realistically i probably need less). Each click button will do something specific. the first one should assist the tank (slot 1), then keystroke 3 (for pet attack social), then either 4 (casting social) -or- directly cast (alt +3). If I can stick a 1-2sec delay between assist, pet attack and nuke, that'd be great. I tried using Mapped Key STep Action, since it has a timer, with no luck. I'd venture im using it incorrectly.
The Template and button set (just text) all jived and worked fine. Do I need to make more ctrl-shift-alt-numpad hotkeys for the hotkey sets? Considering much of the functionality already exists (like the assist setup, or a simple alt+3 to cast)?

Anyway, what I did after linking the button set and template to the menu and making sure it displayed... i export to inner space after any single change to observe..

In the button set (MageButtons), Button 2.. right clicked:
Do Mapped Key Action - Target: Character:Mage// Key May: ISB42 - Party // Mapped Key: Assist Me - Active method ** This actually causes slot 1 to FOLLOW the Mage. I can use KeyStroke>Variable Keystroke to make the group Target Slot 1, but Assist Slot 1 doesn't work.
Keystroke Action - Target: Character:Mage // KeyCombo: 3
Keystroke Action - Target: Character:Mage // KeyCombo: 4
=====

Tried to use Key String action of "/cast 3" hoping that'd kick a spell off. Didn't. Ill keep plugging tomorrow, but wanting to see how to to set the clickable menu buttons up so I can drive from one screen. I feel like I kinda get it, then suddenly nothing works.

Also, with Menus, I can't find any information, and it's likely way too advanced... Is it possible to build a bank of clicks, then change what they do on the fly? Uh, nested menus? Suppose a bank that is 3x4.. top 3 are "navigation" buttons, the next 3 rows of 3 are combat specific buttons for mage and shaman. then can flip to another "page" and access say healing and buffing in that same 3x3 bank, but not combat until flipping back? The video Firerescue17 did showed tabbing between the bars, but that was prior to menus. The wiki didnt really explain this. Or am I being unreasonable again?

Trying to find the best way to manage a bank of either physical keys, or virtualized keys i can flip through to click for tasks.
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Kresharth

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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:42 am

Post Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:25 am

Re: Help! With uh.. Everything

Hi TempusX, it can be confusing at first so rather than getting swamped I'd suggest you start by using the basic functionality in ISBoxer, then slowly add to that.

Some of your needs might be achieved by more easily by setting up macros in EQ and then just calling them from ISBoxer.
You'll just need to know how to send keystroke commands to each EQ character as if you were typing them directly.

For example:-

ISBoxerHotbutton1 broadcasts the group to /target this_characters_name (make a separate ISbutton for each character so when you switch characters you send the right one)
ISBoxerHotbutton2 presses an EQ macro to Attack which includes /assist, /pet attack, /pause x /cast spell, /pause x /cast spell etc (make an EQ macro on each character in the same slot)
ISBoxerHotbutton3 broadcasts the group to /Follow
ISBoxerHotbutton4 broadcasts the group to /Stop

Do this to set up your initial commands, THEN go through Firescues excellent guide to learn the advanced stuff.

I 6-boxed up to level 100 with a variety of group makeups with this simple approach. (also don't forget to make a click macro in EQ for each character and tie it to a broadcast key you can spam while fighting)

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