Mercs in group

So i've read over lots of group formation methods and i'm wondering if there is a simpler method of dealing with mercs in groups. I run 4 necros and 2 mercs but i dont always run the mercs. As it stands right now if i have the mercs out im doing a lot of micromanagement on mobs becausing of targeting manually. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Ualaa]

Do you mean setting up IS Boxer, so assist/follow works with both 4x Necro + 2x Mercenaries or straight 4x Necro and 0x Mercenaries?
If so, I found this method (from Firescue17) to work great: viewtopic.php?p=22515#p22515

What im getting at is that when the mercs enter the group it messes up the group order, and thus all of those target variable keystrokes go to hell. I tried adjusting the group slot order outside of game in isboxer but the mercs are still affecting the group order. isboxer still counts them as slots 1-4 instead of necro-merc-necro-merc-necro-necro. My target me, assist me, and follow me are all broken.

[firescue17]

The following is what occurs when a merc joins the group. This is from the perspective of the Main Character only. Starting with a full group of 6:

Character 1 - Group Slot 1
Character 2 - Group Slot 2
Character 3 - Group Slot 3
Character 4 - Group Slot 4
Character 5 - Group Slot 5
Character 6 - Group Slot 6

If you drop Character 3 to make room for a Merc, the Main Character's Group Window will visually appear like this:

Character 1 - Group Slot 1
Character 2 - Group Slot 2
Character 4 - Group Slot 4
Character 5 - Group Slot 5
Character 6 - Group Slot 6
Empty Slot - Group Slot 3

Notice Group Slot 3 appears to be filled in the Group Window; however, it's slot is still reserved.

If Character 1 was to add a Merc, you would get:
Character 1 - Group Slot 1
Merc - Group Slot 3
Character 2 - Group Slot 2
Character 4 - Group Slot 4
Character 5 - Group Slot 5
Character 6 - Group Slot 6

Backing up a step, if Character 4 was to add a Merc instead of Character 1:
Character 1 - Group Slot 1
Character 2 - Group Slot 2
Character 4 - Group Slot 4
Merc - Group Slot 3
Character 5 - Group Slot 5
Character 6 - Group Slot 6

Characters may shift up visually in the Group Window; however, the vacated slots are not filled. The same applies to both PCs and NPC Mercs. The Virtualization matrix to account for the possibilities with five Characters and one Merc would be 30 if you only *ever* 6 Boxed. With four Characters and two floating Mercs would be 32. If you wanted to account for all the possibilities for a 4 Box, 3 Box and 2 Box it would be 63. I may be off on some of those; the point being it would be a ridiculous amount of Virtualization.

This is one of the reasons, among others, I assign the MA and Follow target to the Extended Target Window during group formation and build socials off those:

FOLLOW
/pause 5, /xtarget <slot>
/follow

ASSIST
/pause 5, /xtarget <slot>
/assist

HEAL
/pause 5, /xtarget <slot>
<heal>

Extended Target Slots do not roam as vacated Group slots do.

So i've tried using /xtarget to move over the mercs over to the extended targets and i just cant figure it out. I'm not sure what im missing, or maybe its conceptual in nature. How is it supposed to work, the examples in game didnt really help and the descriptions on forum arent helping either lol.

[firescue17]

Group members don't get moved to the Extended Target Window. They are duplicated there as an additional target.

What type of Mercs are you running with 4 necros anyway? If they're DPS Mercs, they don't need to be assigned to the Extended Target Window as there is no reason to target them. If they're Tank and Healer, they don't need to be assigned to the Extended Target Window. There is no need to target them as they can't be Main Assist or auto-followed and all direct heals are done by the Healer Merc. I'm not overly familiar with level 85 and above Necro AAs and Spells, but I can't think of a reason why one would need to Target a Merc as a Necro.

If your intention is to use Extended Target Window targeting versus Fkey targeting, you would need to pick a specific Character, generally the Main, to assign to the Extended Target Window to use as the Main Assist and Follow Target. This can be done in a variety of methods by Character name or Group Role # via "/grouproles set <Character Name> <#>" and "/xtarget set <Extended Target Window Slot #> <Character Name or Group Role #>." Those are the only two /slash commands needed.

OK, so that clarifies a few things on extended targeting. My problem still occurs though. If I'm just running the necros then they show up as 1-4 on the group window. I run a tank merc and a healer merc basically to fill slots but also because they do provide some utility. The problem that I run into is that when the mercs are in group they reorder the group thus messing up the targeting keys (assist me, follow me, and target me) because the group is no longer in the correct order.

1 --> 1
2 --> merc
3 --> 2
4 --> merc
5 --> 3
6 --> 4

I couldnt get the variable keys to change on the fly for some reason, but I would rather work with a more "concrete" solution since from what ive read you have to recreate variable keys on the fly every time you log on. Hopefully this clarifies what I'm up against. Thanks for your help so far as I've take a few things away from the conversation.

[firescue17]

Hopefully this clarifies what I'm up against. Thanks for your help so far as I've take a few things away from the conversation.

I understand the situation you're encountering regarding switching from a group with Mercs to one without Mercs and back again. It's a situation I've encountered myself.

I couldnt get the variable keys to change on the fly for some reason ...

The command you're looking for to remap the Fkeys is "New Set Variable Keystroke Action."

... from what ive read you have to recreate variable keys on the fly every time you log on.

They only need to be remapped when your group formation changes. First, you would need to decide which group formation is to be the default, mercs or no mercs. Whichever formation you decide upon would have it's Fkey targeting set on the Character's Variable Keystrokes Tab per Mirai's video. For discussion sake, let's say the 4 Necros with no Mercs is the default group formation. If you log in, the Fkeys are already set as default. Only when you un-suspend the Mercs does the Fkey targeting need changed. If you log out (or export to Innerspace) with Fkey targeting set correctly for a mercenary formation, then log back in, the Fkey targeting will have been reset to default and be incorrect for Mercenary group formation usage.

Resetting the Fkey targeting on the Character's Variable Keystrokes tab and re-exporting to Innerspace every time you suspend or un-suspend a Mercenary would not be the most efficient way to handle switching.

In order to switch on the fly, you would create two new Mapped Keys, let's call them "Suspend Mercs" and "Unsuspend Mercs." Each of these Mapped Keys is going to contain a whole crapload of "New Set Variable Keystroke Actions" to remap the Fkeys. You would then assign the "Suspend Mercs" and "Unsuspend Mercs" to a Clickbar, Menu, or Hotkey in order to activate them. Let's say you decide upon a Menu. One button is going to contain a "New Do Mapped Key Action" to do "Unsuspend Mercs." A second button is going to contain a "New Do Mapped Key Action to do "Suspend Mercs." At which point, when you switch group formations, you click whichever Menu button is needed.

Here's a scenario, you log in the Necro's on their own for the first time of the day to play EQ. No other action is required, the Fkeys are already set correctly as default on the Character's Variable Keystrokes Tab. You're running around killing stuff and spawn a named. At which point you decide to un-suspend the Tank and Healer. You pop the mercs and click the Menu button "Unsuspend Mercs." This remaps all your Fkey targeting to the new group formation. You kill the Named, get your phat loot and decide to suspend the Mercs again to save money. You click the Menu button "Suspend Mercs," which once again remaps all your Fkey targeting for the new group formation back to the original, default settings.

I would rather work with a more "concrete" solution

I am unaware of any other method to Assist and Follow besides the two already mentioned, 1) Fkey targeting to Assist and Follow from any Window, or 2) Extended Target targeting to Assist and Follow designated Characters. There are pros and cons to both. Fkey targeting doesn't play nice with Mercs. Extended Target targeting doesn't work if the designated Characters are dead or in a different zone.

This just keeps getting better lol. So from what it sounds like I'm going to have to go through every iteration of group makeup in these key maps. Is that what you're getting at, because otherwise I'm completely confused. All of this because my laptop cant run 6 accounts at once... baaa.. thanks for all of your help and im sorry if im a bonehead but i still dont get it.

[firescue17]

So from what it sounds like I'm going to have to go through every iteration of group makeup in these key maps.

You get it. This is exactly correct. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the size of the matrices. If you run the same Mercs all the time, it's not quite so bad. You only have two *sets* of Variable Keystrokes to set:

1) 4 Boxes with no Mercs
2) 4 Boxes with Mercs

Where it gets exceptionally crazy if if you intend to run different amounts of Characters with different Characters having different Mercs un-suspended at different times.

1) 4 Boxes with no Mercs
2) 4 Boxes with Character 1's Merc only
3) 4 Boxes with Characters 1 & 2's Mercs
4) 4 Boxes with Characters 2 & 3's Mercs
and so on
...
4) 3 Boxes with No Mercs
5) 3 Boxes with Character 1's Merc only
and so on
...
6) 2 Boxes with No Mercs
and so on

It would be a huge project with dozens of iterations and hundreds of "New Variable Keystroke Actions." My recommendation would be to start small. Build the 4 Box no mercs and the 4 Box 2 Mercs. Get those saved in a Mapped Key so they're working correctly and you don't have to redo them and export every time. Once you've made the first run through the entire process it will make much more sense. Then you can go back and expand upon it. If you find yourself frequently running only a single Healer Merc, you can add it in as a third option. Or Maybe you find the need to scale your group back to only 2 boxes for small farming runs. You can add that as a fourth option.