Daybreak announces plans for "No Box" progression server

[lax]

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/producers-letter-july-update-and-whats-coming-up.225472/

We have been listening to a lot of feedback and discussing some options so we are starting a plan for a special rules server for winter for those people looking for a different experience. We are working on the details, but it seems like a No Bot/No Box Progression server could be a lot of fun (and we might explore some other additions as well). It requires some coding to enforce a single client per computer, so winter seems likely for that release, after the upcoming Campaign.

I will note for all of you wondering, ISBoxer is not likely to specifically work around their limitation to multibox on a special server, assuming it does not affect the other servers without this rule. (Despite that it would probably be trivial for ISBoxer to do, and they are obviously aware that they can't enforce it if you have multiple PCs anyway..........) Daybreak/SOE has historically been quite gracious to our customers of WinEQ, WinEQ 2, EQPlayNice and ISBoxer, and of course we would all like to see that continue.

With that in mind .. what do you think about an EQ server without multiboxing? Do you look forward to finding a group? I sort of remember the olden days, before many people multiboxed in EQ1.

(p.s. they specified no bots? What, like botting is encouraged on the other servers?)

It has a lot to do with the culture of the people on the current TLP servers.

There are a few types...

1) Normal people - hold 1 account and go LFG when they want to level up/do a dungeon.

2) Small scale boxers - 1 to 3 accounts, used for doing content they might otherwise miss. Example, monk + shaman + enchanter, cleric + sk + enchanter, 3 mages etc. This is so you don't have to sit and LFG for hours to level up your characters or get level appropriate loot. I am one of these people. I run a monk, shaman, and enchanter and am able to do essentially any level appropriate dungeon and also bring guild mates along to benefit from my hard work setting up a balanced group and a ton of keybinds so I can pull, mez, slow, and heal.

3) Large scale boxers - 4+ (people go up to 18, 24, and so on). These guys are doing some pretty awful things. There is no instancing in old school EQ save for a special load balancing system they created for crowded dungeons. All world bosses are on long timers, though they recently upped how often they spawn. Daybreak has taken an extreme approach up to last week or so, saying everything is a DPS race to see who gets the loot. Elements on the server have taken advantage of this, essentially warping in mage armies and kill stealing gods. As a result, they've not only had to buff the raid encounters to deal with the number of 18+ mage boxers that chain summon pets, they've had to react to coordinated mass unsubscribes from the other guilds trying to do it the old fashioned way. They recently introduced a forced raid rotation. The result is the top guild who is the main offender splintering into many different guilds so they can take up rotation slots, some literally ONLY filled with boxing mages (1 - 2 people in actuality), all for greed over god loot. See, if that was the end of it, maybe it would be okay. But these same boxers will take their 20 x level 50 mages and sit on spawn points in low end dungeons (Runnyeye comes to mind) and essentially prevent any level appropriate group from actually being able to do the content, all so they can farm the rare items for plat so they can buy Krono (currency for game time) to actually fund their 20 accounts. This is on a server where the population is so large (reportedly 3500+ at prime time) that essentially every valuable named camp above a certain level is essentially perma camped. They don't respond to tells. They don't respond to camp checks. They are so small in number, because they outlevel the content, that it doesn't spawn another instance of the zone either.

You'd think they could solve this with policy, but I don't think they saw the issue soon enough in planning stages. You can't really implement a policy to limit the number of accounts someone has or force people to somehow play nice now that the damage is already done. If I could make a unilateral decision, I would just forcibly limit the number of accounts you can have, make it a bannable offense, and then implement a play nice policy to stop people from being huge dicks.

Instead, they start fresh with a no-boxing policy. Which to me is honestly not a particularly appealing idea, as their are classes in classic everquest that literally just can't solo. So you'd be logging on every day traveling around hours trying to find a group. Ramp up time in EQ is hours in this system, and your commitment goes up even further due to travel time, occupied camps etc.

I'd say most people don't have a problem with small scale boxing. Hell, it was pretty common even in the old days. Not sure why we can't come up with a policy system that works properly while making an experience that doesn't crush people's ability to play the game so that the few hundred who have 18 mage boxes and those that benefit from them can monopolize content.

[firescue17]

(p.s. they specified no bots? What, like botting is encouraged on the other servers?)

I wouldn't read too much into anything Holly Windstalker publishes.

With that in mind .. what do you think about an EQ server without multiboxing? Do you look forward to finding a group? I sort of remember the olden days, before many people multiboxed in EQ1.

I think it's a great idea and I hope it's respected by the boxing community.

Ever since the P99 refugees were given amnesty the EQ community has become an extraordinary cesspit of epic whining and crying. I would love to see those people given a shiny new playground all to their own. I'm genuinely curious to see how long it takes for the anti-boxing hatred to turn into whiny requests to be merged with a regular server. This would be the ultimate proving ground to put the boxing debate in EQ to rest once and for all.

I would give it 12 months of viability.

[Fippy]

No want, and doubtful I would play on it. Nevertheless I agree with respecting the 'no box' rule on that server. There is no point in letting it live any longer than it should.

I'd say most people don't have a problem with small scale boxing. Hell, it was pretty common even in the old days. Not sure why we can't come up with a policy system that works properly while making an experience that doesn't crush people's ability to play the game so that the few hundred who have 18 mage boxes and those that benefit from them can monopolize content.

Efreeti, possibly the most contested camp in the game right now, can be held by small scale boxing. Players are getting fed-up with camps being held near 24/7 by the same crews. I personally waited 14 days to finally get a Freeti camp - held it for 5 hours, got my 4 GEBS and have not been back. Some 12+ boxer was bragging how he had over 50 krono and was not leaving till he had enough to sub for a year. But you dont need 12, or 6; you can hold most named camps with 3 (Arch Mage - SMR, and Efreeti are key). These are the camps *common* people see.

As for top guilds splintering to psuedo guilds. I dont buy that.

No Bot server? No, i wouldn't play on it.

no Krono server? i would be there in a second.

I 6-box. I just made two mages alts on two of my accounts for easy quest farming - Mages are better are killing green PHers than my warrior as she requires heals etc... I will drop these in Unrest or Upper Guk for quest farming (Paw and mystic cloak) while I do other stuff on my pc. Owning more mages than that starts to stretch the necessity of legitimate game play as it encroaches pure greed with the intent to DPS racing

I would love to see those people given a shiny new playground all to their own. I'm genuinely curious to see how long it takes for the anti-boxing hatred to turn into whiny requests to be merged with a regular server. This would be the ultimate proving ground to put the boxing debate in EQ to rest once and for all.

I would give it 12 months of viability.

Calling it a No Box TLP is a misnomer based on the description thus far. Make no mistake what they are describing is not a No Box server. Its a No Software Assisted Box server. They've already described allowing boxing old school with multiple machines. That being said if they are going to try this No Software Assisted Box Server, I would like to see them go one step further. With it they should also launch a Boxing Not Only Welcome But Encouraged Server. Then compare notes on community health at the end of 12 months. What a grand social experiment.

As we all know its not boxing that's inherently the problem. Being an asshat is the problem. ISB just makes it easier to be an asshat on a bigger and grander scale. That's not ISB's fault. Its like the age old Gun argument. Owning a gun doesn't make you a dangerous killer nor does your gun run off and mow down schoolchildren on its own.

Better yet, they should create a Prison Server like they just did for EQ2. Let sentencing be partially influenced by player petition and reporting. Make reputation mean something again. People have long complained that Sony/DBG doesn't really do anything about it because they value sub money over their "other" players. I think the Prison Server is brilliant. What better way to keep the sub money while not letting asshats pee in the pool anymore.

That would, indeed, be quite an experiment.

One of the things that is missing from EQ these days (and I started playing in July 1999), is the social aspect to some extent. It is genuinely more difficult to find groups and just log in and interact with new people to get something done. The new progression servers brought some of that back by all accounts (although I'm not playing them myself).

In fact, I came back from a long break and I new right from the start that to be able to "just log in" for myself and have some fun, I'd need to box. I'm OK with that and frankly so are most people. They have that and perhaps a small group of friends to play with.

But, I can see that a server which promotes and to some degree forces the old style of play may suit some people - again, the progression servers suggest this (despite mage armies .

I think there's room for both sides and plenty of room in the middle for a "combo" of "do it whichever way you like".

You're right, though, asses are gonna be asses no matter what.

[Fippy]

I keep asking "What has changed?"

Boxing has been around since the earliest days. I started boxing when Kunark came out. Now all of a sudden boxing is a problem (on TLP)?

I think it is cramming 2x the normal load onto one server which is only in classic (Lockjaw). Things will loosen up a bit, although there will always be run-ins between the boxing and anti-boxing camps.
In the meantime, I try not to act like the typical box crew. I typically travel while invis, and don't have a ton of pets following me around. My characters do not act simultaneously. While Lax won't give us
delays, they can be used inside of in-game socials.

I don't think for a moment that we won't see serious boxing on that server (although I won't cross that line).

[firescue17]

I would strongly suggest just ignoring it. Don't box it. Don't "just two box." Just leave it alone. Let those people have their playground. There's no benefit to pushing the limits.