FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Moderator: MiRai

<<

Dbashn

Posts: 11

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

Post Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:10 pm

Is Virtual Combat Needed?

The concept of setting up what I would call a middle man key map is not clear to me. Maybe I just haven't encountered a complex enough configuration to see the benefit.

A note on complexity, did anyone consider that using the terms "Key Map" and "Mapped Keys" would make for a total nightmare when discussing configurations? How bout "Key Group" and "Mapped Keys"?

The way Pro Config is explained is if I want to make a more adaptable ISBoxer setup.

So let's start with an example used in the video and setup:

We got a key map named Combat Hotkeys...

Under that I have a fairly generic mapped key named "DPS Rotation".
This is where I would assign a hot key like G1 to tell one or more char to execute their DPS Rotation. (Makes sense so far)

The action for this is to let's say "Do DPS Rotation in Virtual Combat Key Map -> all" (Have everyone do the mapped key "DPS Rotation" under the Key Map "Virtual Combat")

So we go to the Virtual Combat Key Map and DPS Rotation doesn't do anything. It's a placeholder as it seems many refer to these types of Key Maps.

Next we pick a character under "Characters" and find that the Virtual Combat Key Map is redirected for this character to, for this example, a class specific Key Map (mine is EQ1_Warrior Key Map)

Great! Now I can go to EQ1_Warrior Key Map, and setup what actions each Warrior class will do when I press the G1 key to perform the "DPS Rotation".

It's setup this way for all the classes, and this is a great way to provide a flexible configuration for groups or classes of characters.

Let me boil this down to a summary:
I am using a G15 keyboard so G1 is just a key on it that is supported by ISBoxer. Don't get caught up on the key, it could be any key.

1. Basically we're saying that we are going to use G1 to perform the action DPS Rotation.
2. When G1 is pressed we will be redirected to the same action under a different Key Map "Virtual Combat" that does nothing.
(I want to add at step 2 there is NOTHING to indicate this Key Map is linked to any other part of the setup. It appears to be a dead end. Like a global variable and I have no idea what functions use it)
3. So now we are going to the character level and find out that the Virtual Combat Key Map is redirected to a user created "class" specific Key Map.
4. The class type Key Map has the same DPS Rotation Mapped Key where we finally define what is this class going to do when you press the G1 key.

Finally the question!

Why do I need to pass the action through a Virtual Key Map with the same action that does nothing but get mapped to another Key Map with the same action that finally does something?????

For example:
1. I could go to each Character, Virtual Mapped Keys tab, and setup Key Map "Combat Hotkeys" is now "EQ1_Warrior Key Map".
2. DPS Rotation under "Combat Hotkeys" would be just like the Key Map "Virtual Combat" having no actions.
3. DPS Rotation under "Combat Hotkeys" could just as easily be redirected to each class specific Key Map having the same Mapped Key "DPS Rotation" that has the actions to perform for that class.
4. Where is the need for the Key Map "Virtual Combat"????

The way I understand this part of Pro Config is I'm assuming we're just trying to create a setup to translate a key like G1 to perform one or more actions based on, in this case, the class of the associated character.

I don't see any additional options to be gained passing it to the Key Map "Virtual Combat" before going to the class specific Key Map.

Maybe something changed since I recently started using ISBoxer and "Virtual Combat" step is no longer necessary, or I would love some links to examples of why it's useful.
<<

Alge

User avatar

League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

Posts: 1223

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:17 am

Location: Under the milky way tonight

Post Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Not every action is solely dependent on, and can only be defined in, the class-specific Mapped Keys . An assist and broadcast Mapped Key is a good example: for most games the assist part must be done in Combat Hotkeys because the target information is not known by the class.

I can give a better explanation when I am at my main computer tonight.
<<

Dbashn

Posts: 11

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

Post Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:09 pm

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Alge wrote:Not every action is solely dependent on, and can only be defined in, the class-specific Mapped Keys . An assist and broadcast Mapped Key is a good example: for most games the assist part must be done in Combat Hotkeys because the target information is not known by the class.

I can give a better explanation when I am at my main computer tonight.



This still doesn't justify the use of the Virtual Combat Key Map. Especially for the examples provided in the Pro Configuration video and text.
<<

firescue17

User avatar

League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

Posts: 584

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:37 am

Location: Omaha, NE

Post Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

If you want to get rid of the extra Key Map, you can. However, you'll have to explicitly declare a Target for each and every action as opposed to sending a Keypress to all windows and letting the Virtualization sort out the intended target.

Dbashn wrote:Why do I need to pass the action through a Virtual Key Map with the same action that does nothing but get mapped to another Key Map with the same action that finally does something????? . . . I don't see any additional options to be gained passing it to the Key Map "Virtual Combat" before going to the class specific Key Map.

I pass mine through 4 Key Maps and store their current Combat Stance in a Mapped Key in a 5th Key Map.:

KEY MAPS:
Combat Hotkeys Key Map -> Combat Rotation Key Map -> Virtual Combat Key Map -> Spellset Key Map

I run 8 characters off 3 Combat Hotkeys: AoE, DoT, and a general Spam hotkey. Considering the Spam key:

COMBAT HOTKEYS:
HomeRow 0 in Combat Hotkeys has two Actions

    Do DPS Spam in Combat Rotation to Window: Self
    Do DPS Spam with Stand in Combat Rotation to Window: All Other
COMBAT ROTATION:
    DPS Spam on Keypress: Do Combat Stance in <the unlinked 5th Key Map> to Window: Self.

    DPS Spam with Stand: on Keypress Down: Do /stand Window: Self
    DPS Spam with Stand: on Keypress Up: Do Combat Stance in <the unlinked 5th Key Map>.
This Mapped Key does Combat Stance to the Window which has focus and does /stand and Combat Stance to non focused Windows. When encountering FD, my boxed characters will stand up prior to /casting on *every single keypress.* The reason I don't send /stand to the current Window is to avoid my character from spinning while trying to move / kite and entering a /slash command.

VIRTUAL COMBAT
This Key Map has three empty (dead end) Mapped Keys. Burn, Balanced, Passive which activate various abilities and or group roles (heal vs dps, archery vs. melee) with varying cooldowns: instant, medium and long term. This allows me to switch stances on any character independantly of the other characters OR switched them simultaneously (all Healers into Heal Mode, all characters into ranged vs. melee)

SPELLSET
This Key Map contains the actual in game actions to be executed based upon the particular spells each character has loaded, which also have varying cast times and cooldowns. Considering Shaman DoTs in EQ; Magic DoTs last for 36 seconds, Disease DoTs last for 84 seconds. If I don't take those times into considering, my whole combat sequence for the character will be out of whack when switching spells.

Using my Druid for example, using the extra Key Maps to store the different actions allows me to switch from one to the other instantly without losing any of my cast times, spell durations, or reuse timers.

My Druid has two Window focus states: focused and non-focused. It has three combat states: Burn, Balanced, Passive (instant reuse). It has two Group Roles: Heals and DPS. It has two Spell Sets: Cold and Fire. In order to toggle all the various abilities and states above without using Virtualization and "Placeholder Key Maps," I would have to hardcode 24 (2 x 3 x 2 x 2) different Mapped Keys per Character to accomplish a single in-game Action. By virtualization "Combat: Stance" I can do it with four Key Maps and one Mapped Key.
<<

Kaische

Posts: 167

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:11 am

Location: Germany

Post Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Dbashn wrote:This still doesn't justify the use of the Virtual Combat Key Map. Especially for the examples provided in the Pro Configuration video and text.


If you use Virtualization ISBoxer needs a Key Map or a Mapped Key it can completely replace.



Dbashn wrote:Why do I need to pass the action through a Virtual Key Map with the same action that does nothing but get mapped to another Key Map with the same action that finally does something?????

For example:
1. I could go to each Character, Virtual Mapped Keys tab, and setup Key Map "Combat Hotkeys" is now "EQ1_Warrior Key Map".
2. DPS Rotation under "Combat Hotkeys" would be just like the Key Map "Virtual Combat" having no actions.
3. DPS Rotation under "Combat Hotkeys" could just as easily be redirected to each class specific Key Map having the same Mapped Key "DPS Rotation" that has the actions to perform for that class.
4. Where is the need for the Key Map "Virtual Combat"????


You will end up with this if you play different classes:

    COMBAT HOTKEYS
  • DPS Rotation
      Step1: empty
  • DPS Rotation
      Step1: Do WarriorStuff
  • DPS Rotation
      Step1: Do MageStuff
  • DPS Rotation
      Step1: Do HealerStuff
      Step2: Do MoreHealerStuff
    ...
    ...

Your Key Map "Combat Hotkeys" is cluttered with different versions of Mapped Keys named "DPS Rotation" each meant for a different class and neither you or ISBoxer have a chance to tell them appart.

Remember: A Key Map i just a collection of Mapped Keys.

You can use a Key Map similar as a directory in Windows to organize your stuff in ISBoxer. And use the full potential of ISBoxer to activate or deactivate a Key Map at the time you play the game. Or in the case of the Pro Configuration switch things on-the-fly.
firescue17 has nearly perfected the art of virtualization if you take a look at his mindblowing ways to accomplish something.
<<

Dbashn

Posts: 11

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Here is the question again a specific as I can get. The default setup has examples that are used to explain virtualizing mapped keys under the Combat Hotkeys Key Map:

Key Maps
Combat Hotkeys
-----DPS Rotation ----- Do DPS Rotation in Virtual Combat Key Map -> all (hot key defined to trigger)

So we go to:
Virtual Combat
----- DPS Rotation ----- NO ACTIONS, STEPS, OR OPTIONS DEFINED

Then you find out that you go here:
Characters
----- CharName ----- Click the Virtual Mapped Keys tab ----- Virtual Combat Key Map is now Warrior Key Map (could be different for each character)

So it's like, Wow, I key press a key one or more times I can have each character/class to perform one or more functions/steps. Cool.

BUT, why not just do this:

Key Maps
Combat Hotkeys
-----DPS Rotation ----- NO ACTIONS, STEPS, OR OPTIONS DEFINED (other than the hot key defined)

Then go straight to here:
Characters
----- CharName ----- Click the Virtual Mapped Keys tab ----- Combat Hotkeys Key Map is now Warrior Key Map (could be different for each character)


One less program step. What is the Virtual Combat Key Map providing? Why do I need to cross that bridge and have the class specific key maps reference the Virtual Combat Key Maps when I can just have them reference the Combat Hotkeys Key Map?

Please explain this scenario, the benefit of one over the other?

Now I don't see any reason either way will not work, but if I don't need to replicate every mapped key I create unnecessarily under a key map that's doing nothing.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll continue to learn various action types and how I can use them to be more dynamic. But I think I understand the basic concepts enough to get my own basic framework setup.

I do appreciate the help in the forums, and I'm not knocking anyone's method to their madness, I'm just trying to ensure when I build out my config that I don't miss a key concept. I wanna get this done and play, LOL.
<<

Ualaa

Grandmaster Guidesmith

Posts: 714

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:53 am

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

You don't need the virtual keys, if you don't want them.

They essentially let you define certain keys for certain functions.
And you can plug in any type of toon, and the same key does the same function for that toon.

You might have a key for a 'Snare' type effect.
On one character, it will be one spell.
On another character, it will be a different spell.
You can add a third character to your set, one that has never been with this set (and may never be again)... and the same profile, which won't need modification, is going to know to do the snare type effect for the new character.

Same deal if you want Single Target DPS.
Or AoE abilities.
Or burn them down NOW stuff.



If you always make one set for each group of characters.
And make a new set for every possible combination...
Then you won't gain a lot from virtualization.

If you decide to plug and play characters...
Mix up which character goes into a given set.
Then the Pro Configuration is going to work quite well for you.

It's an option, if you want to use it, but it is not a requirement to enjoy your game.
Streaming in 720p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
<<

Alge

User avatar

League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

Posts: 1223

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:17 am

Location: Under the milky way tonight

Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:28 am

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Dbashn wrote:
Alge wrote:Not every action is solely dependent on, and can only be defined in, the class-specific Mapped Keys . An assist and broadcast Mapped Key is a good example: for most games the assist part must be done in Combat Hotkeys because the target information is not known by the class.

This still doesn't justify the use of the Virtual Combat Key Map. Especially for the examples provided in the Pro Configuration video and text.

Right, because the simple examples provided in the default configuration set up by the Quick Setup Wizard for the Pro System don't include, for example, assisting in the DPS Rotation. There are a number of counter-examples in the detail of the documentation though. The example I cited (assist and broadcast) is exactly the counter-example you asked for ("I would love some links to examples of why it's useful."). Assist and broadcast is the behaviour that many people, particularly those used to what the non-Pro QSW gives them for WoW, expect to happen when they press a Hotkey. There are other examples as well (including the asked-for links):

Adding Auto-assist to a Combat Hotkey
Adding Round-Robin to a Combat Hotkey
Performing Actions only with members of a potentially-dynamic ATG
plus more from my own custom tinkerings.

I'm not making the claim that you have to do things this way. For example, there is at least one other potential way of doing virtualisation in ISBoxer which is not yet supported - I hope it will be soon as it will remove the need for Virtual Combat and the need for Key Map Virtualization at the Character level. However, developer time is a finite resource.

You don't need to use the Pro System and you can roll your own variation on it if you want to. However, the weight of experience in this thread says that people find the Virtual Combat Key Map necessary and useful. The current system provides a consistent and flexible framework that is applicable to many different situations. In practice you will spend much longer creating and tweaking your class-specific Key Maps than you will creating any additional Mapped Keys in Virtual Combat beyond the defaults that are created for you by the QSW. However, if you can come up with a better method, please share it. Many of the innovations in ISBoxer have come directly from users.
<<

Dbashn

Posts: 11

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:22 am

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

@ualaa
Ya, I understand the benefits of virtual keys, it's just the default config and pro config information, IMO, didn't do well explaining the difference between creating mapped keys that are going to have hotkeys, and all the the steps/actions defined vs. creating mapped keys to serve as virtual keys. I think it would have been easier to understand if virtual keys were a separate topic with more detail, and compare mapped keys with fixed functions to virtual mapped keys that can be called upon and made to behave based on various available options.

Basically from what I've discovered further the answer to my question is NO. Virtual Combat is not required to do virtualization, it's just an example Key Map and I basically need to consider how I should structure it, naming conventions, groupings, etc.

I'm over it and moving on.

Thx all.
<<

firescue17

User avatar

League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

Posts: 584

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:37 am

Location: Omaha, NE

Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Is Virtual Combat Needed?

Dbashn wrote:Basically from what I've discovered further the answer to my question is NO. Virtual Combat is not required to do virtualization, it's just an example Key Map and I basically need to consider how I should structure it, naming conventions, groupings, etc.

I don't know if this helps to answer your question; however, it is relevant and may help others reading the thread in the future. Personally, it took some time for me to figure this out:

"Virtual Combat" is not a magic word required in order for Virtualization work. The Key Maps and Mapped Keys can be named whatever you want, i.e. "John Doe's Key Map" The important part is the virtual references between Key Maps and Mapped Keys be correct and accurate for your profile: Do "Mapped Key Named Whatever" in "Key Map Named Whatever" and "Mapped Key Named Whatever" is now "Some Other Key Map / Mapped Key."

My profile contains the following Lables:
Placeholders
Placeholders: Character
Placeholders: Character Set
Hotkeys: General
Hotkeys: Number Row
Do Combat Rotation
Placeholders: Virtual Combat
Placeholders: Spellset
Combat Stance
Stance: Burn
Stance: Balanced
Stance: Passive

Structure and naming convention is one of the biggest issues I have; and heaven forbid one should have to try and walk someone else through it. After awhile, everything looks the same; Stance this, Placeholder that. It's not uncommon for me to get lost in my own profile when trying to expand it or backtrace an action. I am absolutely elated when I come up with a new Label which doesn't conflict *and* is descriptive of the action contained within.
Next

Return to ISBoxer Pro Configuration

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests