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VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:10 pm

VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

magoo-neverboxer-dump.zip
Pastebin no workee
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Unfortunately pastebin only accepts smaller files. So I have attached a copy of the zipped xml. Hopefully it is not corrupted or anything should not be as I used notepad++.
Like everyone else with issues I have tried many iterations of this and none of them worked. This is the one I found worked the closest to what I was after with bugs.

Quite likely this is not possible and the bugs are due to windows/DX being stupid as per usual. But I thought I would ask anyway. It may be an IS bug also.
I am using the neverboxer installation and the most interesting keymap is my custom VFX one in the initialisation section.

What I was after:
  • All slave regions stacked on a second monitor with another dxnothing window on top of them showing my viewers - by default these are a 2x2 grid of the slaves.
  • If you interact with one of the vfx windows it should act normally as if this was a region.
  • If you vfx focus on the window it should bring up the slave in question into the main. (either as a vfx or the slave region itself)
  • If you swap to the main character, all other slave regions go behind DXnothing window and you see the 2x2 grid again.

What works
  • General layout and 2x2 grid
  • Interacting with the vfx windows PARTIALLY works. (most buttons and mouse works) However it works completely if you switch off key maps.
  • You can get windows/regions to focus and come to the foreground most of the time if you have the configuration "just so".

Some of these wont be present in the configuration above.
  • Focusing of regions is buggy as all hell (was the same for Rift) in certain configurations. Sometimes they pop up fine, sometimes not. Sometimes they are not clickable. This generates a lot of noise that makes zeroing in on your problem hard.
  • If you bring up the Ctrl-Shift-Alt-G control panel you cannot click on anything until you disable key maps. (NB: mouse 1 has a keymap binding)
  • In other configs the window works for most keys but not all - for example WASD. (i.e. the ones that have intercepting key binds don't work - see a pattern?).
  • In certain configurations (not the one above) when you focus into a slave vfx window the buttons all work, but the mouse pointer is stuck in the bottom right hand corner.
Summary:

Am I doing fundamentally wrong here or is this just a feature of vfx windows? I am 99% sure that the key press problems are due to the fact they have keybinds associated with them that carry out non-trivial actions. So when you press W there are 5 or so actions that neverboxer fires off including a "w" key action. Of course the vfx screen never gets it.

The region/focus craziness I had with Rift also. After much fluffing about I managed to get it working but this time the same tricks are not working all that well. Windows seem to fight for the foreground occasionally and this will not work consistently at all if you have any sort of "always on top" configured. They appear not to respect each others ordering when that feature is enabled - which makes sense if it is not paying attention to who should be in front when they also has "always on top" enabled. The problem is that it makes the behaviour very unpredictable. (e.g. wrong window in the foreground or the right one but you cannot click on it)

This could all just be the limitations of Aero etc and if so it would be good information to know as I will just try to create a (sub-optimal) alternative that works at least most of the time. :)
Last edited by mrmagoo on Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

I almost had it working...but a new bug.

I have the 2x2 dxnothing the slave regions popping in and out as they are supposed to now in a very functional way.

The special keys still don't work inside a vfx window but I can live with that for now.

And I can now make the dxnothing window appear at the front when the primary character/monitor is focused. I do this by triggering the focus of the dxnothing region and then focus the first character slot. This is the ONLY way I have found to be able to do this - every other of the dozens of combos either does not work as you would expect or acts in a non-deterministic way. (i.e. semi-random)
However. Once I add this single additional focus the main character screens controls go completely wonky?!

The mouse is hyper sensitive and the camera jerks all over the place on fractional movements. NONE of the keys press correctly (even the ALT key) unless you do some cryptic random combination of mouse and ESC key and christ knows what then you MAY get one of the keys to work.
If you are lucky its the alt key because the mouse is trapped in the window and you wont be able to get out unless you do! Even alt tab fails.
Thinking about it this is the same behaviour you get when a window has "trapped" or is responding to the mouse but has not actually received focus. A click is usually required to focus the window properly and then you are laughing. Of course the click is not working.
Couple this with the fact that neverboxer binds the mouse button AND we can see in vfx windows that bound keys cannot be recognised....I am seeing a pattern here.
Bound keys/mouse button and window focus appear to be bugged somehow. Definitely in the vfx windows but in certain circumstances in plain old regions also. Having said that my main window has vfx overlays for the inventory so it is possible that these overlays are involved even though they are hidden. (unlikely but something to mention)

I manually closed the dxnothing window and magically the primary started acting sane again. Reopened just that dxnothing window and...boom. So it is certainly that dx nothing window being present.

I just thought as I wrote this it MAY be that damned always on top which is makes even someone like me look sane in the way it behaviours. I will try turning that off for even the primary (not stacked) region and see what happens. Apparently this does not fix it at all - Nothing is now set to always on top.


Man this is VERY frustrating - even worse then when I was mucking about with rift. :roll:

KHHHHHAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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lax

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Post Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:54 am

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

(NB: mouse 1 has a keymap binding)

Hotkeys always override broadcasting mode. If you want Mouse1 to do anything other than what you Hotkeyed it to do, you must disable the Hotkey. Thus, " you cannot click on anything until you disable key maps", and "In other configs the window works for most keys but not all - for example WASD. (i.e. the ones that have intercepting key binds don't work - see a pattern?)."

Windows seem to fight for the foreground occasionally and this will not work consistently at all if you have any sort of "always on top" configured. They appear not to respect each others ordering when that feature is enabled - which makes sense if it is not paying attention to who should be in front when they also has "always on top" enabled. The problem is that it makes the behaviour very unpredictable. (e.g. wrong window in the foreground or the right one but you cannot click on it)

This does not appear to be configured in your pasted config so I can't really comment on it



It sounds to me like the "Neverboxer" configuration was not tested with this type of layout, and more importantly that you're expecting Video FX to work the same as first-class input to the destination game window -- and it's not. You can't activate an ISBoxer Hotkey in the destination Video FX window by pressing it in the source window; any Hotkeys will be performed via the source window.

If you want WASD to work over Video FX or even Broadcasting Mode, then you will need to make sure your WASD Hotkeys (which are in Non-combat) are disabled, because they are specifically sending WASD only to the current window, not to ANY other window (and Hotkeys always take precedence over Broadcasting Mode, including from Video FX). Which means if your current window is dxNothing, they are going to the dxNothing window, which means it's going to do nothing at all. You might consider removing the Non-combat Key Map from the dxNothing window; the simplest thing to do there is to add a Key Map State Action to Step 2 of "Activate Maps" (in Always On) to turn Non-combat off for dxNothing.

On a related note, the Targeting Key Map is never disabled, so the Hotkeys in it are always on. Mouse3, Mouse4, Mouse5, F6, F8, F9, F11, F12, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 are permanent Hotkeys in this config. FAQ: I added a new Key Map but the Key Maps toggle does not disable it?
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Sylver

Posts: 388

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:02 pm

Post Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:08 pm

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

Lax is correct - the NeverBoxer config is not readily compatible with what you are attempting. Certainly not impossible, but you're looking at changing a mess of code.

The VFX windows in NeverBoxer are static windows with mouse-through and click, nothing more (no swapping, etc). Also, the window swapping thorugh the switch-bar and [ ] keys work directly in conjunction with the targeting, formations and follow... standard VFX window swaps don't trigger the associated mechanisms and will likely break the config in a really bad way.

I recommend starting from a clean slate, setting up your dxNothing and windows first (using the setup wizard) and once you have the swapping worked out, then start adding pieces from NeverBoxer into your config as needed/desired. Especially the binds, which are the core of everything that is required to make multi-boxing Neverwinter feasible.

Hope that doesn't sound too defeatist, but that is how I would approach what you're attempting.
- Sylver
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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:45 pm

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

Firstly, thanks for the responses. I was quite frustrated last night after a whole sunday of bashing my head against a brick wall and purposely tried not to vent in my posts and I apologise if any of that slipped through. :oops:

lax wrote:Hotkeys always override broadcasting mode.

You are talking about broadcasting from vfx to its source I assume and not general broadcasting which I was not using. This makes sense and my intuition was correct - the bindings are causing that part of the craziness. What is worse is that there are triggers which change key mappings on char focus.(which happens) So the vfx windows will focus and then route half the key bindings the wrong way - leading to unusual behaviour.
The routing to the dxnothing window is a good insight also.
So thanks for that, this explains nicely what I am seeing and makes a lot more sense. There were several things all going wrong at once and that made it hard to work out what was causing what. Not to mention the complexity of neverboxer on top of that.

While it would be a nice feature to have a vfx viewer act as a region if you should so choose, I understand the limitations and difficulty in coding this. Indeed I was trapped into this thinking when I read on the vfx manual page that people were using vfx only for their setups and I assumed VFX would work as above. It is good to know it does not. So for example for NW it would be impossible to setup this situation as it is - so I should stop bashing my head against the wall!

Having said that the DX nothing window causing the primary to go nuts is a bug of some sort. They should have had nothing to do with each other and were even on separate GPUs. So in the end I had to turf the DxNothing altogether which was a bit sad. :(
As I mentioned I have reverted to a region based approach and this is working better with the single focusing/on top problem listed above.

This does not appear to be configured in your pasted config so I can't really comment on it

I will setup a situation to show this - this is the worst one IMHO and is not NW specific.
This part has nothing to do with vfx BTW. This happened in Rift and LOTRO also when I set it up (i.e. no VFX at all) and is now happening in NW again - with no dxnothing or vfx windows as I was using them. (there are cropped viewers but they are off anyway)

I am surprised you have not come across it as it happens often and in many of the configurations I tried?

This is the worst one by far because even simple window layouts act in a non-deterministic/illogical fashion and it happens in a lot of scenarios. Trying to work out the cause and effect is therefore nearly impossible as there is not a consistent pattern (at least as far as I can see - and I have tested and looked extensively). I managed to make it work with Rift by putting in some window state and focus actions that should not have been necessary but made it work anyway.


The behaviour I have seen is most certainly a defect (there is no mistaking that) but may very well be on Aero/DX/etc and just something we have to live with. Lord knows I have had that often enough in my time with windows! :)
Please be aware I appreciate the effort that has gone into this amazing software and I am not ragging on it at all - you guys are wizards. :)
Because I think this one is so important I will setup a Rift example to show you. If you say it should work fine that will be interesting in itself - my computer is freshly installed and does not use any weird desktop software/etc.


On a related note, the Targeting Key Map is never disabled, so the Hotkeys in it are always on. Mouse3, Mouse4, Mouse5, F6, F8, F9, F11, F12, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 are permanent Hotkeys in this config. FAQ: I added a new Key Map but the Key Maps toggle does not disable it?


I had already worked this one from my previous setups. Obviously an annoying "feature" (especially if you bind a letter key in this way! :) ) but something that can be worked around at least.

I will work on that configuration.
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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

Sylver wrote:Lax is correct - the NeverBoxer config is not readily compatible with what you are attempting. Certainly not impossible, but you're looking at changing a mess of code.

Unfortunately I think it IS impossible as it stands. It is not just the keymaps it is the unpredictable window/dxnothing behaviour also. They compound each other and prevent what you can do to fix them. (catch 22 styles)

Sylver wrote:The VFX windows in NeverBoxer are static windows with mouse-through and click, nothing more (no swapping, etc).

I understand that which is why I nuked them and created my own. The vfx I am talking about were my own custom viewers which were just basic ones linked to "is1/2/3/etc". I still use the inventory/interact ones though. I was going to place the inventory ones on the dxnothing window on my second monitor...but that idea was dusted when the dxnothing window caused the primary to go crazy.

Sylver wrote:Also, the window swapping thorugh the switch-bar and [ ] keys work directly in conjunction with the targeting, formations and follow... standard VFX window swaps don't trigger the associated mechanisms and will likely break the config in a really bad way.

Yup! :)

Sylver wrote:Hope that doesn't sound too defeatist, but that is how I would approach what you're attempting.


Not at all. As I mentioned in the original post I was trying to validate what was possible, what was impossible, what was a bug and more generally to try and understand better the behaviour I was seeing. I usually just work this stuff out for myself until I come up against something I cannot fix.

Mission accomplished for the most part. :mrgreen:
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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:43 am

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

Here is an example to illustrate a sample (not all) of the problems I have experienced with window layouts. Some I cannot reproduce because they happened weeks ago and I cannot remember the configurations that caused them. They also happen in amongst a whole heap of poking, prodding and learning.
To make it even more confusing sometimes exporting a layout/focus type change to existing screens will work differently when you restart all clients. This could have caused me to see bugs in the past due to a restart being needed - I cannot be sure which anymore. The trouble with this sort of "noise" is it becomes difficult to debug what is going on.
And some of the "character wont respond to mouse clicks until refocused" bugs I have seen with my current configuration only appear intermittently in game and I don't know the precise process to make it happen on demand.

Keybindings:
Alt-Ctrl 1-5: standard keys
Mouse 3: Activate current window button.
Home: swap to primary char (i.e. "Focus Main" keybind)
PG UP: forward through regions
PG DN: backwards through regions

http://pastebin.com/Kr1dz2UW

Intended layout:
  • Main screen never moves
  • 2x2 grid of slaves that always shows when main is focused. Can interact with them as they are.
  • Active region(6) for swap group 1 takes the entire 2nd screen. Empty/hidden when main focused, contains focused slaves.
Interesting/pertinent features of this config:
  • Focus main (HOME key) calls "Switch to background" on all windows. (typically would be triggered automatically by focusing main char for a real setup)
  • All regions set to "always on top mode":"On, if a game...."
  • Window layout->"swap hot character to main region" set to "always for game windows"
What I expected to see:
  • Pressing Home would send all slaves to background 2x2.
  • Cycling windows brings each slave to the front in fullscreen.
  • Interacting with slaves works as normal in 2x2, clicking focus makes them full screen.
What I see:
  • Home button works and will end any craziness and put slaves in their place. (should have been called "whip")
  • Initially: Cycling windows will enlarge the appropriate character but the ordering/layering of windows will be all over the place.
  • Change to swapping to "anytime ISBOXER focuses a window" and export: Cycling windows will not full screen a char. Even though the keymap calls "focus" for that window. Focus text pop-up appears so focus is occurring. Requires a client restart to work.
  • For either setting: Clicking mouse3 (or any button) once on slave 2x2 grid will often not work. (i.e. you need to have "interacted" with the window first even though the configuration is set "do what it normally does")
  • Click m3 twice will cause a random ordering/layering of windows. Click again will cause another random ordering. etc.

If you like I am happy to create a reproducible scenario if I come over any others in my travels.
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mrmagoo

Posts: 61

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

Post Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: VFX/focusing/key actions not playing nice together

meh.

The window focusing/maximising on NW gets bunged in the same way as above when you export anything. Even without changing layout.

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