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"Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

Moderator: MiRai

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Skarling

Posts: 247

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am

Post Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

well, I ticked the box "do not advance" in the step where I have "set step to 2" action, re-exported, and I still get ELLO ELLO

and thx Firescue17 for the picture :)
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Finney

Posts: 81

Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:49 am

Post Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:28 pm

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

Definitely need to study what you're up to firescue17. This is a "print it out and take in into the next room to understand" kind of thing.
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Skarling

Posts: 247

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:07 am

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

to Firescue17 - I like your appoach a lot, and at first glance what I am trying to do, is to achieve approximately same result but within a stand-alone mapped rotation key. Your setup hops from one mapped key to another in a cascading manner, mine hops from step to step firing off spells that are off the cooldown, and re-applying debuffs/dots that are expiring, in top-to bottom way. The side benefit is having access to "do not advance" step functionality which minimizes the need for timer pools. I also handle some special "heavy hitters" (combat arts that you want to use only after a mob is thoroughly debuffed for maximum effect) in a similar manner - but having step 1 in their own mapped key calling to skip to next step in main rotation for x seconds from first keypress and then triggering it.

I have three different rotations - one for trash mobs (just direct damage spells as they die fast), one for tough singe targets where I dont want to waste long-term cooldowns and select debuffs, and one for boss-type mobs where all bets are off. I can switch to any of these rotations on the fly, doing so will reset them all to step 1. I handle AoE differently - its on a separate rotation but rather then switching to it I make it superimpose on top of the active dps rotation via prioritizing in Virtual keymaps.

I can also see that your approach is more flexible, as I imagine it is possible to deviate from your cascade order if you activate a certain trigger (kind of cascade down a different path). For example in Vanguard SoH there are 6 types of damage (ice, fire, arcane, physical etc), and often you encounter mobs that are not only resistant to a particular damage type, but they actually get healed if you hit them with such (particularly elementals and arcane mobs). I am struggling now with my rotations to allow for such encounters, but it is quite tough.... Also, in some boss fights you are supposed to do only melee damage in certain phases, or just spells in others. and so on. I'd be curious to know handle these types of events.

to Finney: I made a mistake in this part of my first post:
quote
" in your DPS rotation in Step 1 do this mapped key "Buff", set it to not advance to next step for at least 1.5s, as well to allow for buff to go off when its up. (I assume step adjustment "Add 1" overrides this setting when "Buff" mapped key is on Step 2)"
unquote
you should not specify any time period here, just tick the "do not advance" box; - it may appear is if your rotation will be stuck here, but it will not, since your called mapped key will move it down to next step on its own "add to" step. The rotation will also fire faster. I have been boxing EVE recently (where its all mouse click-based) and forgot some of my own set up nuances for "regular" games :)

to Lax: I am pretty much convinced by now that there is bug in Isboxer with "add" and "set to" mapped key step actions when such actions are called from within a mapped key (or from a mapped key within a mapped key) which is also a target for them. They skip a step (even though the step with with such action has a "do not advance" option ticked). Can you please investigate this.

Here is screenshot I made to illustrate that I had to include blank step 2 for "HELLO" to appear rather than "ELLO" in the debug window

Image
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firescue17

User avatar

League of Extraordinary Multiboxers

Posts: 584

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:37 am

Location: Omaha, NE

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:08 am

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

Skarling wrote:to Firescue17 - I like your appoach a lot, and at first glance what I am trying to do, is to achieve approximately same result but within a stand-alone mapped rotation key. Your setup hops from one mapped key to another in a cascading manner, mine hops from step to step firing off spells that are off the cooldown, and re-applying debuffs/dots that are expiring, in top-to bottom way. The side benefit is having access to "do not advance" step functionality which minimizes the need for timer pools.


Cascading Combat Chains have significant advantages over multi-step Mapped Keys.

KEY BENEFITS OF CASCADING COMBAT CHAINS

  • Cascading Combat Chains allow the user to Hotkey individual Mapped Keys whereas one can't Hotkey an individual Step inside a Mapped Key.

If I was to convert my chain to separate Mapped Keys, it would like the following:

Code:
Stance: Burn                              Stance: Balanced                              Stance: Passive
Step 1: Do Sub: DPS Burn
Step 2: Do Sub: Epic Burn                 Step 1: Do Sub: Epic Burn
Step 3: Do Buff: Heal Procs               Step 2: Do Buff: Heal Procs               Step 1: Do Buff: Heal Procs
Step 4: Do: AA: Banestrike                Step 3: Do: AA: Banestrike                Step 2: Do: AA: Banestrike
Step 5: Do Clicky: Black Steel            Step 4: Do Clicky: Black Steel            Step 3: Do Clicky: Black Steel
Step 6: Do Clicky: Theft of Hate          Step 5: Do Clicky: Theft of Hate          Step 4: Do Clicky: Theft of Hate
Step 7: Do Combat Skills                  Step 6: Do Combat Skills                  Step 5: Do Combat Skills


Prior to engaging a Boss, I will apply the pre-buff "Do Buff: Heal Procs" with a 3-minute timer. This sets "Buff: Heal Procs" to Step 2, which subsequently advances all three Stances to "AA: Banestrike." At which point, as long as I engage the Boss within three minutes, the buff won't fire again regardless if I'm in "Burn," "Balanced," or "Passive" or even Cycling between Stances throughout the 3 minutes.

  • Cascading Combat Chains allow the user to reuse the same chain without having to duplicate downline Actions by Virtualizing "DPS Rotation" as "Stance: Burn," "Stance: Balanced," or "Stance: Passive."

  • Cascading Combat Chains will back up in the cascade order without wrapping around. Since each individual Mapped Key only has 2 steps, <Do Ability> or <Do Next> it's not necessary to know where you're at in the chain, how many Step advances are required to get to the next available ability, or even if the Step advance is positive or negative.
  • Consider the following "Stance: Burn" scenario:
    1. All abilities are on cooldown and "Step 7: Combat Skills" is being spammed over and over ...
    2. The Heal Proc buffs come off cooldown, the Cascading Combat Chain will jump from Step 7 back up to Step 3.
    3. Next keypress, "Epic Burn" come off cooldown, the Cascading Combat Chain will jump from Step 3 to Step 2.
    4. Once again, I'm out of abilities. All intermediary abilities fall through (holding on their respective Step 2's) and the chain jumps from Step 2 to Step 7.

  • If two abilities come off cooldown at the exact same time, the best one will always fire first as it's placed higher in the hierarchy.
Last edited by firescue17 on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Skarling

Posts: 247

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:47 am

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

firescue17 wrote:
3) mine will back up in the cascade order without wrapping around. Lets say everything is on cooldown and I'm at the end of the "Stance: Burn" chain doing "Combat Skills" (Step 7) over and over. My buffs come off cooldown, it will jump from Step 7 back to Step 3. Next keypress the Epics come off cooldown, it jumps from Step 3 to Step 2. Now I'm out of abilities, all intermediary abilities fall through (holding on their respective Step 2's) and the chain jumps from Step 2 to Step 7. Since each individual Mapped Key only has 2 steps, Do <Ability> or Do <Next> it's not necessary to know where you're at in the chain, how many Step advances are required to get to the next ability, or even if the Step Advance is positive or negative.


Now THAT is pure awesomess, I am stand humbled (and contemplate with horror redoing all of my stuff). :shock:

Great job man.

I guess the only way to approximate this within a stepped rotation, would be if steps that are on cooldown could be removed from the rotation and popped back in when they are ready to fire (and you'd still not have a "perfect" jump sequence, but much better). I dont think that's possible... Unless there's a new "Mapped Key Step State Action" introduced.... :?:
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Ualaa

Grandmaster Guidesmith

Posts: 714

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:20 am

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

IS Boxer... has no way of knowing if an ability is on cooldown, or if it is available for use.
That's true for every game out there.

You can set a rotation to attempt an ability.
And to not attempt that ability again, for a duration.

But you'll actually have to be spamming quickly enough, that your DPS key is pushed when the ability refreshes.
You cannot have an ability go off, without triggering it yourself.

Still, Firescue17 is showing an involved rotation with prioritization of abilities and taking into account cooldowns.
Streaming in 720p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
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Skarling

Posts: 247

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:59 am

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

We are perfectly aware that IS boxer has no way of knowing if the in-game ability is on the cooldown Ualaa. By saying "step is on cooldown" I mean its in a mode "do not advance to next step for X amount of time". What Firescue17 achieved is him not having to spam the key faster because unlike with steps, cascading mapped keys do not require quick spamming keypresses to "catch" a mapped ability that is back from holidays.

Naturally being envious, I implictly suggested that lax think about introducing new step action to his woderful IS boxer - namely "Mapped Key Step State" action (on/off) to give those of us dedicated to mapped step rotations a competitive edge :).
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Ualaa

Grandmaster Guidesmith

Posts: 714

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

You still have to spam faster than a given threshold.
If you have a series of abilities, some of which take 3 seconds (cast time and cooldown)...
You'd need to be spamming at least once every 3 seconds to fire off the next ability, without just sitting there.
Spamming at a rate of 1 push every 12 seconds is not going to cut it.

It depends on whether EQ has abilities that don't trigger a cooldown (instant click items perhaps).
Assuming they were part of your rotation.



The comment on IS Boxer not knowing whether an ability is on cooldown was directed towards your comment of, "if steps that are on cooldown could be removed from the rotation and popped back in when they are ready to fire".

You can approximate, essentially as well as you can define your setup.
But IS Boxer isn't going to make intelligent decisions.
With a well enough refined setup, it might seem that way... but the actions are predictable, according to the pre-configured setup.
Streaming in 720p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
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Skarling

Posts: 247

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

Lol I did not mean to sound so defensive, sorry if I did.

We still have to spam, that is a given. The thing is with rotations based on keysteps you waste some keypresses to go past steps that are on "cooldowns" since you do have to press your spam key to trigger "skip to next step" mapped key step action, and the rotation goes only in one direction - from top to bottom, so you can waste a bit of time spamming to hit the step that is off "cooldown" somewhere in the beginning of your rotation.

On the other hand, if you construe you rotation in a different manner (like firescue does), you dont need as many keypresses to reach that same ability. its a matter of efficiency, is all.

By saying "if steps that are on cooldown could be removed from the rotation and popped back in when they are ready to fire" I meant exactly that. I'd like to be able to "dim" the step that is on "cooldown" (i.e waiting for its "do not adavance" inherited time to run off) and not having to press spam key just to bypass it in the mapped key rotation.
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Ualaa

Grandmaster Guidesmith

Posts: 714

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: "Trigger only once" checkbox clarification?

So basically... rather than do not advance for x.x
It would be disable this step (thereby skipping it entirely, and going to the step beyond it) for this duration.



I'm not sure how EQ's system is exactly.
In Warcraft, the trigger once didn't work out that well for me.

Mainly because IS Boxer didn't know that I was on a cooldown (in-game) or that there was a lag spike.
So it sent the keystroke once (correctly, as per the configuration), and then didn't attempt to send it again for 18 seconds.

Meanwhile my 18 second Warlock dot did not land, because the game would not react to the keystroke when it was sent.
And then IS Boxer didn't send the keystroke for that dot, for the duration.

The whole click-castsequences (Burning Crusade & Wrath of the Lich King) and then the priority sequence (Wrath of the Lich King, and onwards) works great for direct damage spells and instant cast abilities (melee strikes), but left a lot to be desired for dots that could be overwritten (effectively, wasting whatever duration would have been remaining).

Tweaking rotations is an involved process.
In a way, that's a game unto itself too.
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